Vestcor at it again - Lofts at Cathedral

[KenFSU]

At the former Community Connections property, per the JBJ.

Workforce housing coming to Cathedral District as part of revitalization efforts

A plan to build dozens of apartments in the heart of Jacksonville's Cathedral District is moving ahead.

Vestcor has applied for utility service at 325 Duval St. E. to build up to 140 units at what the company is calling the "Lofts at Cathedral."

Ginny Myrick, who is leading the nonprofit Cathedral District - Jax Inc., which is working to revitalize the historic downtown neighborhood, said the apartments will be mostly workforce housing. No architect has been selected for the project yet.

Vestor President Steve Moore was not immediately available to talk Monday.

The property used to belong to Community Connections, which provided transitional housing for the homeless until the group shut down as a result of federal funding shifting from transitional housing to rapid rehousing efforts.

Full story: https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/10/30/workforce-housing-coming-to-cathedral-district-as.html

[acme54321]

Good to see something happening on that side of downtown.  Any word what exactly they are planning for the site?  I hope they don't plan to demolish the existing YWCA structure on the SW corner of the block.

[Captain Zissou]

This is the property that Balanky had a proposal for, correct?  As part of that project, the original Y building was to stay, but the smaller building would have been demolished.

[vicupstate]

I thought the more recent plan was to tear down both buildings.

[KenFSU]

I thought the more recent plan was to tear down both buildings.

Original plan was to tear down both buildings, but the building's historic designation prevented that from happening.

Correct CZ, Balanky's plan kept the most historically significant portion of the property intact (the L-shaped building) while demolishing a less significant portion.

Four liens were placed on the property last year, and Balanky exited to focus on other things.

A nonprofit purchased the property, and they're now working with Vestcor, it seems.

Main difference is that Balanky's plan was 15% workforce housing, and it sounds like Vestcor's will be majority workforce.

[Tacachale]

I thought the more recent plan was to tear down both buildings.

They're definitely not demolishing the L-shaped building, which is landmarked.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/nonprofit-buys-cathedral-district-property

[Steve]

Correct - my understanding is everything except the historic building will be demolished and they'll rebuild. I assume that means the building on the corner that looks awful and doesn't fit whatsoever will be gone.

I remember that building because at a JCCI meeting, I asked a rep from the predecessor to the DDRB why they approved this building that clearly doesn't meet historic guidelines. He shared that since they were a nonprofit they let it slide (paraphrasing).

This was on the heels of Fidelity National Financial building their garage with 0 ground level retail. I made a comment on how the rich companies get what they want, the rules are bent for the small non-profits while the mid-sized companies have to comply, which is sort of a microcosm of the world.

My comment wasn't met with enthusiasm.

[MusicMan]

Downtown has how many "workforce" housing units coming on line?

How many market rate units?  (All I can think of is old Barnett Bank Bldg...)

My worry is downtown will never be a destination for upwardly moblie millenials and well to do retirees.

If it's too much workforce housing it will always suck.................   

[Captain Zissou]

This was on the heels of Fidelity National Financial building their garage with 0 ground level retail. I made a comment on how the rich companies get what they want, the rules are bent for the small non-profits while the mid-sized companies have to comply, which is sort of a microcosm of the world.

My comment wasn't met with enthusiasm.

The funny thing is that all the FNF, FIS, BCBS, and Black Knight employees who use that garage would probably make retail space in that garage a hit.  There are a couple thousand employees within a quarter mile of that garage and all the mom and pop restaurants around there are packed.

[thelakelander]

Downtown has how many "workforce" housing units coming on line?

How many market rate units?  (All I can think of is old Barnett Bank Bldg...)

My worry is downtown will never be a destination for upwardly moblie millenials and well to do retirees.

If it's too much workforce housing it will always suck.................   

It has more luxury units proposed than workforce housing.  The District alone has more housing units than all the recently built and proposed Vestcor properties combined. Then there's the various projects proposed/going up on the Southbank and in Brooklyn. If upwardly mobile millennials and well to do retirees want to move downtown, it won't be because there aren't enough housing units available for them.

[Steve]

This was on the heels of Fidelity National Financial building their garage with 0 ground level retail. I made a comment on how the rich companies get what they want, the rules are bent for the small non-profits while the mid-sized companies have to comply, which is sort of a microcosm of the world.

My comment wasn't met with enthusiasm.

The funny thing is that all the FNF, FIS, BCBS, and Black Knight employees who use that garage would probably make retail space in that garage a hit.  There are a couple thousand employees within a quarter mile of that garage and all the mom and pop restaurants around there are packed.

Right!? Apparently FNF didn't want to be a landlord, though there are plenty of ways to solve that problem. Bottom line is they didn't want to.

[Bill Hoff]

Downtown has how many "workforce" housing units coming on line?

How many market rate units?  (All I can think of is old Barnett Bank Bldg...)

My worry is downtown will never be a destination for upwardly moblie millenials and well to do retirees.

If it's too much workforce housing it will always suck.................   

It has more luxury units proposed than workforce housing.  The District alone has more housing units than all the recently built and proposed Vestcor properties combined. Then there's the various projects proposed/going up on the Southbank and in Brooklyn. If upwardly mobile millennials and well to do retirees want to move downtown, it won't be because there aren't enough housing units available for them.

In fairness, most don't consider Brooklyn and the Southbank to be Downtown, though technically they're in the current arbitrary boundary of Downtown.

[thelakelander]

In fairness, outside of the Barnett (which I don't believe is income restricted), and Ashley Square (senior housing), there aren't any workforce or affordable housing projects going up in the traditional central business district either. The few projects that are underway or recently completed are in LaVilla. The Ambassador Hotel's apartment phase, Elena Flats, Old JEA Tower, Chamblin's project, Jones Brothers Furniture, etc. will all likely end up as luxury housing. In addition to them, we have a slew of vacant midrise buildings where the numbers won't work to make them affordable housing. As the core becomes more popular, they'll likely become luxury housing as well.

[MusicMan]

Agree (with Bill). If you own property within 5 blocks of the old Barnett Bank building, The District (or any other development in SM) will have very little impact on you. 

That's my opinion.

All this workforce housing is not going to keep seats filled at Symphony Hall/TU PAC, The Florida Theater, Cowford Chophouse, or all the lovely little craft cocktail bars (i.e. $13 for a Manhattan) that are popping up downtown. Or seats at TIAA Bank Field.

It's just more people with little or no disposable income filling up downtown.

Lake.... The District (or whatever ends up being there) is YEARS AWAY from completion.

If investors believed what you are saying they would be swooping in and picking up every little parcel and vacant building around all these workforce developments, and that is NOT happening.

[thelakelander]

Agree. If you own property within 5 blocks of the old Barnett Bank building, The District (or any other development in SM) will have very little impact on you.

There's not much housing going on (affordable or luxury) within five blocks of the Barnett. What is proposed is literally all luxury or hotels. 

All this workforce housing is not going to keep seats filled at Symphony Hall/TU PAC, The Florida Theater, Cowford Chophouse, or all the lovely little craft cocktail bars (i.e. $13 for a Manhattan) that are popping up downtown. Or seats at TIAA Bank Field.

Do we even have 1,000 units total? In the grand scheme of things, we're talking about peanuts.

It's just more people with little or no disposable income filling up downtown.

Who's going to work at all these places to serve those who want to live the lavish lifestyle? DT needs all the density and people it can get. We could dump 10,000 new residents in the core today and it still won't be dense. IMO, keep them coming....luxury, workforce and affordable. We literally need all of them.

Lake.... The District (or whatever ends up being there) is YEARS AWAY from completion.

All of these projects are years away. Each project start to finish, easily takes 2 to 3 years minimum. I need to go back and finish up the latest urban project and development list. I think you all will be surprised at what's proposed that's not the District, Vesctor or Shipyards.

If investors believed what you are saying they would be swooping in and picking up every little parcel and vacant building around all these workforce developments, and that is NOT happening.

Downtown is no where near vibrant. Investors will swoop in with money when it makes financial sense for the private sector. We're likely have another recession before that day arrives. Until then, we'll have to lure with incentives.