How Does Consolidation Compare?

[fieldafm]

Displacement, the lack of investment in the core neighborhoods, lack of solutions to resolve infrastructure issues and economic enhancement in neighborhoods of marginalized populations were major issues for inner city residents at the time on consolidation. The desire for black political power for many at the time, was seen as a way to help address systematic racism and economic inclusion. Somehow, we've focused more lately on if consolidation was good for downtown. Downtown was actually pretty vibrant at the time and remained so until a series of national issues took it down, as well as many other central business districts across the country. In general, consolidation should have provide more access to capital to invest in legacy projects positively impacting all areas of the city. In fact, it still does. However, what the size and shape of a city is does not resolve these issues. What Jax needs for both is the ability to make these issues a true continued priority and a move away from systematic policies, procedures and redevelopment strategies that negatively impact distressed areas and marginalized residents the worst.

From a distance, it seems as though consolidation was more a means by which officials could get organized in their attempts to secure federal and state funding for suburban sprawl and white flight.  At 860+ square miles, Jax took a geared-up approach to its sprawl ambitions.  I imagine Consolidation's designers talked about the possibility of using an expanded city's gains to invest in the core, but they were very likely dissembling their real aims.

Outside of interstate highway expansion (parts of which ran through Jax well before Consolidation), where are all these federal funds in your conspiracy theory?  The majority of federal money that has come to Jax over the last three decades have been in the form of CBDG monies.... and virtually all of that has been directed to areas of town that were within Jacksonville city limits before consolidation.

Based on comparable Florida cities that have annexed in places that would be similar locally to areas like the St Johns Town Center, Tinseltown, the massive housing developments/DRIs in the Intracoastal West, Argyle and North Jacksonville areas... how exactly would not have consolidating Duval County resulted in less sprawl?  Orlando's Mall of Millenia area is larger than SJTC... so doesn't sound like sprawl was stopped in Orlando based on their decision not to consolidate.

White flight happened before Consolidation, and the City's eroded tax base at the time reflected that fact. How exactly did white flight accelerate because of Consolidation? 

[jaxnyc79]

Displacement, the lack of investment in the core neighborhoods, lack of solutions to resolve infrastructure issues and economic enhancement in neighborhoods of marginalized populations were major issues for inner city residents at the time on consolidation. The desire for black political power for many at the time, was seen as a way to help address systematic racism and economic inclusion. Somehow, we've focused more lately on if consolidation was good for downtown. Downtown was actually pretty vibrant at the time and remained so until a series of national issues took it down, as well as many other central business districts across the country. In general, consolidation should have provide more access to capital to invest in legacy projects positively impacting all areas of the city. In fact, it still does. However, what the size and shape of a city is does not resolve these issues. What Jax needs for both is the ability to make these issues a true continued priority and a move away from systematic policies, procedures and redevelopment strategies that negatively impact distressed areas and marginalized residents the worst.

From a distance, it seems as though consolidation was more a means by which officials could get organized in their attempts to secure federal and state funding for suburban sprawl and white flight.  At 860+ square miles, Jax took a geared-up approach to its sprawl ambitions.  I imagine Consolidation's designers talked about the possibility of using an expanded city's gains to invest in the core, but they were very likely dissembling their real aims.

Outside of interstate highway expansion (parts of which ran through Jax well before Consolidation), where are all these federal funds in your conspiracy theory?  The majority of federal money that has come to Jax over the last three decades have been in the form of CBDG monies.... and virtually all of that has been directed to areas of town that were within Jacksonville city limits before consolidation.

Based on comparable Florida cities that have annexed in places that would be similar locally to areas like the St Johns Town Center, Tinseltown, the massive housing developments/DRIs in the Intracoastal West, Argyle and North Jacksonville areas... how exactly would not have consolidating Duval County resulted in less sprawl?  Orlando's Mall of Millenia area is larger than SJTC... so doesn't sound like sprawl was stopped in Orlando based on their decision not to consolidate.

White flight happened before Consolidation, and the City's eroded tax base at the time reflected that fact. How exactly did white flight accelerate because of Consolidation?

I mentioned federal and state, and what happened in Jax is not unlike the effect of national policies that drove sprawl and facilitated white flight all across the country - everything from ever-extending and ever-widening traffic arteries to single-use zoning to auto-centric urban design to making auto-reliance almost essential for even very basic and rudimentary commerce to bank financing of suburban home ownership versus urban.  Yes, sprawl had already begun leading up to 1968, but Consolidation was the capstone.  Your comments on Orlando are unclear to me.  Orlando growth and sprawl are driven by a bevy of factors, many of which have no relevance to Jax, sprawl or not, consolidation or not.  There have been studies on the negative impact that city-county consolidations have had on minority political representation.  Given cities have long been key nodes in the federal and state funding network, it's not unreasonable to imagine that after white flight in the '50s, denizens of the new-found nether regions wanted to maintain political influence and ensure their control of the city's purse strings, and consolidation offered a pathway back to manning the levers of power and influence, but from their newfound perches amidst the cul-de-sacs and country clubs.  Again, none of this happened over night, and as with most things, the phenomena have a multitude of drivers.

[Tacachale]

Displacement, the lack of investment in the core neighborhoods, lack of solutions to resolve infrastructure issues and economic enhancement in neighborhoods of marginalized populations were major issues for inner city residents at the time on consolidation. The desire for black political power for many at the time, was seen as a way to help address systematic racism and economic inclusion. Somehow, we've focused more lately on if consolidation was good for downtown. Downtown was actually pretty vibrant at the time and remained so until a series of national issues took it down, as well as many other central business districts across the country. In general, consolidation should have provide more access to capital to invest in legacy projects positively impacting all areas of the city. In fact, it still does. However, what the size and shape of a city is does not resolve these issues. What Jax needs for both is the ability to make these issues a true continued priority and a move away from systematic policies, procedures and redevelopment strategies that negatively impact distressed areas and marginalized residents the worst.

From a distance, it seems as though consolidation was more a means by which officials could get organized in their attempts to secure federal and state funding for suburban sprawl and white flight.  At 860+ square miles, Jax took a geared-up approach to its sprawl ambitions.  I imagine Consolidation's designers talked about the possibility of using an expanded city's gains to invest in the core, but they were very likely dissembling their real aims.

Outside of interstate highway expansion (parts of which ran through Jax well before Consolidation), where are all these federal funds in your conspiracy theory?  The majority of federal money that has come to Jax over the last three decades have been in the form of CBDG monies.... and virtually all of that has been directed to areas of town that were within Jacksonville city limits before consolidation.

Based on comparable Florida cities that have annexed in places that would be similar locally to areas like the St Johns Town Center, Tinseltown, the massive housing developments/DRIs in the Intracoastal West, Argyle and North Jacksonville areas... how exactly would not have consolidating Duval County resulted in less sprawl?  Orlando's Mall of Millenia area is larger than SJTC... so doesn't sound like sprawl was stopped in Orlando based on their decision not to consolidate.

White flight happened before Consolidation, and the City's eroded tax base at the time reflected that fact. How exactly did white flight accelerate because of Consolidation?

I mentioned federal and state, and what happened in Jax is not unlike the effect of national policies that drove sprawl and facilitated white flight all across the country - everything from ever-extending and ever-widening traffic arteries to single-use zoning to auto-centric urban design to making auto-reliance almost essential for even very basic and rudimentary commerce to bank financing of suburban home ownership versus urban.  Yes, sprawl had already begun leading up to 1968, but Consolidation was the capstone.  Your comments on Orlando are unclear to me.  Orlando growth and sprawl are driven by a bevy of factors, many of which have no relevance to Jax, sprawl or not, consolidation or not.  There have been studies on the negative impact that city-county consolidations have had on minority political representation.  Given cities have long been key nodes in the federal and state funding network, it's not unreasonable to imagine that after white flight in the '50s, denizens of the new-found nether regions wanted to maintain political influence and ensure their control of the city's purse strings, and consolidation offered a pathway back to manning the levers of power and influence, but from their newfound perches amidst the cul-de-sacs and country clubs.  Again, none of this happened over night, and as with most things, the phenomena have a multitude of drivers.

Having talked to people involved in the Consolidation campaign and read a lot about it over the years, I really don't think that's what people were thinking. There were multiple reasons people in both the old city and the unincorporated areas supported it, but I don't recall ever hearing about anyone who advocated Consolidation as a tool to encourage sprawl. Nor did it result in worse sprawl than our unconsolidated peer cities experienced.

Entities like the Jacksonville Expressway Authority, the precursor to JTA, were already countywide. People in the suburbs definitely wanted to maintain political influence, but it was more about redundancy and inefficiency in the county government where they already did have influence. The same problem affected our peer cities, mostly resulting in stronger county governments on top of the city government (including Orange and Miami-Dade, which have county mayors who are more powerful than the city mayor).

[jaxnyc79]

Displacement, the lack of investment in the core neighborhoods, lack of solutions to resolve infrastructure issues and economic enhancement in neighborhoods of marginalized populations were major issues for inner city residents at the time on consolidation. The desire for black political power for many at the time, was seen as a way to help address systematic racism and economic inclusion. Somehow, we've focused more lately on if consolidation was good for downtown. Downtown was actually pretty vibrant at the time and remained so until a series of national issues took it down, as well as many other central business districts across the country. In general, consolidation should have provide more access to capital to invest in legacy projects positively impacting all areas of the city. In fact, it still does. However, what the size and shape of a city is does not resolve these issues. What Jax needs for both is the ability to make these issues a true continued priority and a move away from systematic policies, procedures and redevelopment strategies that negatively impact distressed areas and marginalized residents the worst.

From a distance, it seems as though consolidation was more a means by which officials could get organized in their attempts to secure federal and state funding for suburban sprawl and white flight.  At 860+ square miles, Jax took a geared-up approach to its sprawl ambitions.  I imagine Consolidation's designers talked about the possibility of using an expanded city's gains to invest in the core, but they were very likely dissembling their real aims.

Outside of interstate highway expansion (parts of which ran through Jax well before Consolidation), where are all these federal funds in your conspiracy theory?  The majority of federal money that has come to Jax over the last three decades have been in the form of CBDG monies.... and virtually all of that has been directed to areas of town that were within Jacksonville city limits before consolidation.

Based on comparable Florida cities that have annexed in places that would be similar locally to areas like the St Johns Town Center, Tinseltown, the massive housing developments/DRIs in the Intracoastal West, Argyle and North Jacksonville areas... how exactly would not have consolidating Duval County resulted in less sprawl?  Orlando's Mall of Millenia area is larger than SJTC... so doesn't sound like sprawl was stopped in Orlando based on their decision not to consolidate.

White flight happened before Consolidation, and the City's eroded tax base at the time reflected that fact. How exactly did white flight accelerate because of Consolidation?

I mentioned federal and state, and what happened in Jax is not unlike the effect of national policies that drove sprawl and facilitated white flight all across the country - everything from ever-extending and ever-widening traffic arteries to single-use zoning to auto-centric urban design to making auto-reliance almost essential for even very basic and rudimentary commerce to bank financing of suburban home ownership versus urban.  Yes, sprawl had already begun leading up to 1968, but Consolidation was the capstone.  Your comments on Orlando are unclear to me.  Orlando growth and sprawl are driven by a bevy of factors, many of which have no relevance to Jax, sprawl or not, consolidation or not.  There have been studies on the negative impact that city-county consolidations have had on minority political representation.  Given cities have long been key nodes in the federal and state funding network, it's not unreasonable to imagine that after white flight in the '50s, denizens of the new-found nether regions wanted to maintain political influence and ensure their control of the city's purse strings, and consolidation offered a pathway back to manning the levers of power and influence, but from their newfound perches amidst the cul-de-sacs and country clubs.  Again, none of this happened over night, and as with most things, the phenomena have a multitude of drivers.

Having talked to people involved in the Consolidation campaign and read a lot about it over the years, I really don't think that's what people were thinking. There were multiple reasons people in both the old city and the unincorporated areas supported it, but I don't recall ever hearing about anyone who advocated Consolidation as a tool to encourage sprawl. Nor did it result in worse sprawl than our unconsolidated peer cities experienced.

Entities like the Jacksonville Expressway Authority, the precursor to JTA, were already countywide. People in the suburbs definitely wanted to maintain political influence, but it was more about redundancy and inefficiency in the county government where they already did have influence. The same problem affected our peer cities, mostly resulting in stronger county governments on top of the city government (including Orange and Miami-Dade, which have county mayors who are more powerful than the city mayor).

Rarely have I heard people want to own up to or advocate sprawl.  Sprawl is often a byproduct of various initiatives with myriad motivations, or rather, these initiatives facilitate sprawl, and we wind up in an expensive circle of spending to extend infrastructure, while at the same time, spending on some new symbolic purpose for a renaissance core.  From afar, Consolidation was a byproduct and a facilitator.  I've not spoken to anyone directly involved in Jacksonville's Consolidation Campaign of the 1960s as you have, but it's nice to know some are still alive.