WHAT DO YOU THINK? The 10 worst transportation decisions in Jacksonville...

[Charles Hunter]

Cooly -
If the airport were in the southside, one of two things would have happened - either all the residential development now there, would have gone to the northside; or the airport would be looking for a new location due to constant noise complaints.
The Timuquana/JTB bridge makes perfect transportation sense, but with Venetia/Ortega on the west end and San Jose/Epping Forest the east - it ain't gonna happen.

[Timkin]

Unfortunately Charles is on the Mark... There should have been another Bridge Crossing somewhere in that Vicinity. It is probably More because of the San Jose /Epping Forest  Development  than  Ortega... I mean to Put the Bridge in on the West Bank would not take out all that much to impliment.... San Jose is another matter entirely.

[Charles Hunter]

Back in the 1960s, and 70s - when JTB was under construction, and the Timkin, er Timuquana Bridge idea came up - most of the Jax "old money" lived either in San Jose or Ortega, with a great deal of the old money in Ortega.  They had the juice to stop any consideration of a river crossing there.  The San Jose folks even stopped JTB from extending across the FEC to San Jose Blvd.

[Timkin]

hehe  I caught that

[tufsu1]

4. Jta bus station...there should be 3 of these. 1 on each of the 3 sides of town....1 bus station for a city the size of Jax is terrible. One between downtown & airport will be a good spot.

why would you need one on the northside...you said "there's nothing between airport & downtown" 

[Timkin]

And ....what are your other 6 choices for worst transportation decisions ?

[Jaxson]

The proposed bridge between Ortega and San Jose is one example of how it is difficult to plan ahead.  If we plan to build transportation improvements ahead of the development, we either have great foresight or we are accused of building a [name your improvement] to now where.  If we are more reactive (like we usually are), we blow an opportunity and end up facing community opposition because the density began to take hold...

[spuwho]

"Bad form, off target, no points scored!"

RAIL was NEVER dying anywhere, it was going through a reality check, eliminating duplicate mileage, cutting non productive branchlines, yards and junctions, reforming, rebuilding  and dumping money losing passenger trains. Like the change from buckboard wagons to 18 wheelers it could be perceived by a novice as "going away" but it's no more vanishing then a caterpillar in a cocoon.



Everyone is entitled to ones' perspective. I say dying, you say reality check. Either way rail was going through a huge adjustment at the time.


As STJR has pointed out so well, this was WELL KNOWN and fought right down to the finish line by our PORT and a myrid of steamship lines. Even THEN we had hundreds of ships that could not clear that bridge, not to mention the long shots like the Navy returning to Green Cove Springs to really foul up the works. The bridge was delayed for years while dozens of lawsuits were fought out. The bridge bent (support) in the channel is an accident waiting to happen. FDOT, JTA, USN, JAXPORT, COJ, all dropped the ball and did this in such a way as to guarantee our port would always be an "also ran" among the giants of the industry.

I am very sure I can research this further being the relative noob to this area. I will say that Hanjin didn't choose to come here to be an "also ran".


JIA, JAXPORT and the COJ knew from the get-go that true international flights have a tremendous economic benefit. Like a major railroad passenger terminal a city of such services can expect rapid growth of connecting and ancillary services, growth begats growth. Besides that the new airline "freedoms" break all of the old rules and companies such as BA or Virgin Atlantic will attract all manner of local or regional support within their frameworks.  Some aspects of the "freedoms" are much older then even the jet age, bottom line? It was more like typical ignorance of the benefits of transportation that have kept JIA in the stone age. Who would have predicted that in the distant future Jacksonville would have fewer international flights then Melbourne or Sanford Florida? How about in 1920? 1950? 1970? 

Can't speak for Melbourne, but Sanford is primarily a dumping ground for international charters to Disney that don't want to pay commercial rates into MCO. As I mentioned in many posts, Jacksonville doesn't stand out for anything, why would anyone want to host an international flight here other than it being on the east coast?


This line is true, I would hope when that day comes to bite the bitter bullet, we not only FINISH the "Hart" Commodore Point Expressway to JTB, that we also bring down the viaducts across East Jacksonville.

Glad we could agree.

Hey Ock, (or can I call you Rodman Reservoir?) why all the photos?

[Jaxson]

Does anybody have any insight into the Main Street Bridge and its planning?  I read that some politicians wanted U.S 1 to cross the St. Johns River via Liberty Street.
What do you think might have happened if Liberty Street ended up with a bridge and Main Street dead ended at the river?

[stjr]

The Timuquana/JTB bridge makes perfect transportation sense, but with Venetia/Ortega on the west end and San Jose/Epping Forest the east - it ain't gonna happen.

FYI, the first version of this bridge had University Blvd. West on the San Jose side.  That didn't go anywhere either.  

The proposed bridge between Ortega and San Jose is one example of how it is difficult to plan ahead.  If we plan to build transportation improvements ahead of the development, we either have great foresight or we are accused of building a [name your improvement] to now where.  If we are more reactive (like we usually are), we blow an opportunity and end up facing community opposition because the density began to take hold...

I think that the fact that waterfront may be the first property in a desirable area to get developed, it is particularly hard to find the right timing between building a bridge and waiting too long.

Personally, while I miss the convenience of this crossing from time to time, I think it has turned out to be a great asset for Ortega and San Jose that the bridge wasn't built.  These areas mostly kept their character over decades, remained very stable, and didn't get overrun with honky-tonk commercial development and all the excessive traffic that goes with it.  As a result, today these are among the most desirable residential areas in Jax.  It just shows you don't necessarily make life better by paving over everything in sight.

FTI, Jaxson, much of San Jose is older than it may first appear.  The original San Jose development (early houses, San Jose CC, San Jose Hotel/Bolles, San Jose Episcopal Church/School, and Epping Forest Estate) goes back to the 1920's.  Lakewood, around University was build post-WWII/1950's.  Add the defunct Beauclerc CC (now Jewish Community Alliance and Villages of San Jose), San Jose Manor, and San Jose Estates, and a larger swath was also developed in the 1950's.  Most of the remaining infill was built in the 1960's when talk first began of a crossing from University to Timuquana.  Don't forget, Ortega to Timuquana development ranges over that same period.

I am not sure there was anyway to avoid the results that arose to block this bridge.  In those days, the state of city planning seems to have been more intuitive, special interest driven, and/or reactive than "scientifically" anticipated by studying demographic and development trends and applying well researched planning principals.  While things may be better today, it's clear we have a long way to go given the continuing political and special interest overrides to good planning decisions.