Greyhound bus station sold for $2.78 million

[jaxjaguar]

Would love to see a mixed use apartment/condo tower here like The Plaza in downtown Orlando. It's a similar footprint to the Greyhound station. The Plaza is 21 stories and two connected towers with several shops and restaurants on the ground floor, parking hidden within the building, a small but great movie theater, offices in one tower and apartment/condos in the other.

It's a great building imo because it fills out the skyline nicely since it looks like two buildings. Also, there is ALWAYS foot traffic in the area because of the density of mixed use.

A building like this would greatly compliment the area and increase all of the numbers we're looking for.

[jaxnyc79]

Just arrived in downtown Orlando this evening.  I am literally blown away.  I remember the downtown Orlando of the early 2000s and what I'm seeing now is massively different...revolutionized. North Orange has all these street-front shops, bars, and restaurants in modest, low-rise quaint buildings, and Weber street is now an avenue clustered with mid-rise residential, also fronting the sidewalk.  I mean, it's laughable that the city of Jax sends an army of delegates to Toronto, when there's an entire book of lessons learned right down the road in Orlando. Sad to say it, but seeing this now after the past 5 days in Jax just makes Jax look woefully behind.

[thelakelander]

On your way back, drive north on US 17/92 through Winter Park and Maitland. There's a lot of nice suburban infill going up along that corridor around the Sunrail stations. Oh and yes, it has completely changed for the better since the early 2000s, although I don't like what they're doing with Parramore.

[jaxjaguar]

Just curious about what you don't like about what's going on in Paramore, Lake? UCF is putting in a downtown campus, the magic are building out an entertainment complex like we want near the Jags stadium, Orlando city built a stadium and they've put up two mixed use apartment complexes.

[JaxAvondale]

I really hope its not another parking garage. So many better options that that. But if it does go parking, perhaps they will do a mixed-use with retail, then parking, then office and/or residential. Residential directly across from the Skyway would be cool. Don't have high hopes though.

Anybody with enough money can buy property, but they rarely have the vision to see beyond the basics.

It would be a cool space for an indoor/outdoor public market or food hall. It would pull from all the workers in the nearby office towers and courthouse and parking wouldn't be an issue with all of the garages and the adjacent skyway station. My guess is that it ends up being torn down at some point.

An indoor/outdoor food market would be awesome. I went to a similar market in Lisbon earlier this year and enjoyed my immensely.

[thelakelander]

Just curious about what you don't like about what's going on in Paramore, Lake? UCF is putting in a downtown campus, the magic are building out an entertainment complex like we want near the Jags stadium, Orlando city built a stadium and they've put up two mixed use apartment complexes.

I don't like that the only redevelopment strategy they can come up with is one that virtually takes out the existing residents. Growing up down there and knowing a little about the neighborhood's history, I find it disappointing that it's being erased as opposed to being apart of the revitalization process. The proposed UCF campus is on the old Magic arena site across the tracks. The Magic's project is being built on the former location of a parking garage. Those are ok. I have a big problem with the Orlando City stadium in that it basically does to Parramore Avenue what the LaVilla School of the Arts did to Ashley Street.

[tufsu1]

I mean, it's laughable that the city of Jax sends an army of delegates to Toronto, when there's an entire book of lessons learned right down the road in Orlando. 

Nearly every big city Chamber of Commerce takes this kind of trip annually. They didn't go to Orlando merely to learn about downtown development. Also note that the City (taxpayers) pay very little of the trip cost, if any.

[Tacachale]

Just curious about what you don't like about what's going on in Paramore, Lake? UCF is putting in a downtown campus, the magic are building out an entertainment complex like we want near the Jags stadium, Orlando city built a stadium and they've put up two mixed use apartment complexes.

I don't like that the only redevelopment strategy they can come up with is one that virtually takes out the existing residents. Growing up down there and knowing a little about the neighborhood's history, I find it disappointing that it's being erased as opposed to being apart of the revitalization process. The proposed UCF campus is on the old Magic arena site across the tracks. The Magic's project is being built on the former location of a parking garage. Those are ok. I have a big problem with the Orlando City stadium in that it basically does to Parramore Avenue what the LaVilla School of the Arts did to Ashley Street.

I agree. That stadium is a boondoggle anyway. Orlando SC makes a killing at the underused Citrus Bowl as it is. They didn't need to destroy a neighborhood to build a separate stadium a mile away. It's just MLS's self-interested SSS flimflam.

[jaxnyc79]

I mean, it's laughable that the city of Jax sends an army of delegates to Toronto, when there's an entire book of lessons learned right down the road in Orlando. 

Nearly every big city Chamber of Commerce takes this kind of trip annually. They didn't go to Orlando merely to learn about downtown development. Also note that the City (taxpayers) pay very little of the trip cost, if any.

When I typed what I typed, I was recalling an article I'd read in the spring.  I located a quote in that article from th JaxDailyRecord: "In an invitation to register, emailed Friday to Mayor Lenny Curry's Chief of Staff Kerri Stewart, Peyton said the focus for this year's trip is downtown development "and Toronto is just the city.""  I'm not making a point on how the trip was funded, just that what Orlando has done to its downtown seems like lower hanging fruit than a place like Toronto in, not just a different state, but a different country.  Jax's downtown is so far from anything decent, that no one really needs to go all the way to an international city to start covering the basics of catalyzing a bit of vibrancy and assembly.

[thelakelander]

They travel someplace out side of the state every year. Quite frankly, they could learn just as much from a half day trip to St. Augustine or Fernandina Beach. The size of the city and scale of its individual developments may change, but the basic concepts of revitalization are pretty much the same. None of it is rocket science. We just like making it more difficult than it has to be. Why? I'm not exactly sure.

[Tacachale]

I mean, it's laughable that the city of Jax sends an army of delegates to Toronto, when there's an entire book of lessons learned right down the road in Orlando. 

Nearly every big city Chamber of Commerce takes this kind of trip annually. They didn't go to Orlando merely to learn about downtown development. Also note that the City (taxpayers) pay very little of the trip cost, if any.

When I typed what I typed, I was recalling an article I'd read in the spring.  I located a quote in that article from th JaxDailyRecord: "In an invitation to register, emailed Friday to Mayor Lenny Curry's Chief of Staff Kerri Stewart, Peyton said the focus for this year's trip is downtown development "and Toronto is just the city.""  I'm not making a point on how the trip was funded, just that what Orlando has done to its downtown seems like lower hanging fruit than a place like Toronto in, not just a different state, but a different country.  Jax's downtown is so far from anything decent, that no one really needs to go all the way to an international city to start covering the basics of catalyzing a bit of vibrancy and assembly.

Lack of institutional knowledge and followthrough from one mayoral administration to the next, and a private sector and populace that didn't value downtown as a destination until relatively recently. Neither chamber trips nor looking at St Augustine would fix those systemic problems.

[thelakelander]

Very true.

[jaxnyc79]

I mean, it's laughable that the city of Jax sends an army of delegates to Toronto, when there's an entire book of lessons learned right down the road in Orlando. 

Nearly every big city Chamber of Commerce takes this kind of trip annually. They didn't go to Orlando merely to learn about downtown development. Also note that the City (taxpayers) pay very little of the trip cost, if any.

When I typed what I typed, I was recalling an article I'd read in the spring.  I located a quote in that article from th JaxDailyRecord: "In an invitation to register, emailed Friday to Mayor Lenny Curry's Chief of Staff Kerri Stewart, Peyton said the focus for this year's trip is downtown development "and Toronto is just the city.""  I'm not making a point on how the trip was funded, just that what Orlando has done to its downtown seems like lower hanging fruit than a place like Toronto in, not just a different state, but a different country.  Jax's downtown is so far from anything decent, that no one really needs to go all the way to an international city to start covering the basics of catalyzing a bit of vibrancy and assembly.

Lack of institutional knowledge and followthrough from one mayoral administration to the next, and a private sector and populace that didn't value downtown as a destination until relatively recently. Neither chamber trips nor looking at St Augustine would fix those systemic problems.

I understand what you're saying, but these can't be issues that were foreign to Orlando either, or other Florida cities which now have budding downtowns.  In fact, given Jax's age, it probably has a history of more downtown (Core City) vibrancy than other parts of Florida - I'm just thinking of all the compelling pics that get posted here of Jax in the 1900s-1950s.  Something just went terribly wrong and the city can't pull itself together to get back on track and start making enough progress to keep it from falling terribly behind.  I wonder if Consolidated Government is a bad thing for Downtown Revitalization.  Anyone ever study this academically?

[thelakelander]

^It's not. Nashville, Indianapolis, Louisville, Philly, New Orleans, etc. are all forms of consolidated government and have more vibrant downtowns.  Regarding Orlando, they have a pretty good Downtown CRA that produces a lot of money for reinvestment. I believe Jax's Northbank CRA is still in the red from failed projects from the distant past.

[jaxnyc79]

^It's not. Nashville, Indianapolis, Louisville, Philly, New Orleans, etc. are all forms of consolidated government and have more vibrant downtowns.  Regarding Orlando, they have a pretty good Downtown CRA that produces a lot of money for reinvestment. I believe Jax's Northbank CRA is still in the red from failed projects from the distant past.

But consolidated over 800+ square miles?  I mean, every city may be some form of consolidated government...even consider New York City with its boroughs.  Ultimately, sprawl in other corners of the county may be covering up the fact that Core Jax is, perhaps, in a pretty depressed and crummy state.  Growth in the county overall may be the only real chance to finance revitalization in the core - but based on your mentions of the CRAs, it sounds as though the finances and investment opportunities have been ill-advised or mismanaged.  Who should be held to account for recent downtown wastefulness - Delaney, Peyton? 


What are specific, measurable goals to start to give Jacksonville the kind of downtown it wants?  A daily average number of pedestrians tracked walking along its streets after a certain hour of the day?  A certain number of street-fronting bars or live-music establishments or sit-down restaurants within a 5 block radius?  A downtown grade based on a citywide survey, to measure regional perception of downtown?  Like has anyone written this down and is DIA being measured based on this?