Bill O'Reilly out at Fox

[Adam White]

^The ACA primarily regulates the private sector, therefore it is a private solution. If the ACA primarily provided healthcare or insurance, it would be a public solution.

Just because something is regulated doesn't mean it is "public." The use of your car is regulated, but you likely wouldn't refer to it as public transit.

Agreed. Perhaps the government is overstepping it's authority - who knows. But that's not the issue here. The issue is more about generating profit for private concerns. That's why one politician can be pro-life and pro-gun and another can be pro-choice and anti-gun and they can both be neoliberals.

In any event, we've (or I've, really) derailed this thread. So I'll sign off for the night with this comment:

I remember seeing a picture of O'Reilly prepping in a mirror for an appearance. It might've been at the GOP convention years ago. Maybe you shouldn't read too much into a picture, but he just looked like a self-centered prick. There was something about his face.

He is also known to threaten guests with physical violence - of course, he has security throw them out. I don't advocate violence, but I kind of always wanted him to get a beatdown.

I think O'Reilly and Limbaugh and a few others really lowered the tone in this country. But I guess that's the sort of thing that comes with deregulation!

[NotNow]

My experience is that most people who seek the limelight and are as successful as O'Reilly come off as self serving pricks (or bitches).   The tone in this country was lower way before O'Reilly and Limbaugh.  they were just some of the first commentators from the right. 

And yes, the government is overstepping it's authority.  Which is the root of many of this countries problems.

Public...private?  It's a bit more than "regulation".  It's billions in taxes and billions in mandates.  Here is just one source:

https://www.americanactionforum.org/research/five-years-after-passage-the-aca-by-the-numbers/

This goes WAAAAAYYYYYY beyond "regulating" industry.

Ya'll have a good night.  Sorry for derailing the thread.  (Or at least helping.)

[Adam White]

My experience is that most people who seek the limelight and are as successful as O'Reilly come off as self serving pricks (or bitches).   The tone in this country was lower way before O'Reilly and Limbaugh.  they were just some of the first commentators from the right. 

And yes, the government is overstepping it's authority.  Which is the root of many of this countries problems.

Public...private?  It's a bit more than "regulation".  It's billions in taxes and billions in mandates.  Here is just one source:

https://www.americanactionforum.org/research/five-years-after-passage-the-aca-by-the-numbers/

This goes WAAAAAYYYYYY beyond "regulating" industry.

Ya'll have a good night.  Sorry for derailing the thread.  (Or at least helping.)

By the way - it's nice to have you back. Been a long time!

[NotNow]

Thanx!

[BridgeTroll]

 

[peestandingup]

Could be true, could not be. I'm gonna reserve judgement instead of jumping on any bandwagons. If he's found guilty, he should def pay.

Although here's some more allegations of other men at Fox recently:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/24/media/andrea-tantaros-fox-news-electronic-surveillance-lawsuit/
http://www.politicususa.com/2017/04/23/trump-pal-sean-hannity-accused-sexual-harassment-fox-news-scandal-grows.html

So all of these, all right wing, all at once. It looks fishy to be honest. Kinda like how a dozen women all of a sudden became courageous many years later all at once before the election against Trump, trotted out by Gloria Allred & made into spectacles. And then...nothing.

Partisanship aside, dollars to donuts there's other things at play here.

[Adam White]

Could be true, could not be. I'm gonna reserve judgement instead of jumping on any bandwagons. If he's found guilty, he should def pay.

Although here's some more allegations of other men at Fox recently:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/24/media/andrea-tantaros-fox-news-electronic-surveillance-lawsuit/
http://www.politicususa.com/2017/04/23/trump-pal-sean-hannity-accused-sexual-harassment-fox-news-scandal-grows.html

So all of these, all right wing, all at once. It looks fishy to be honest. Kinda like how a dozen women all of a sudden became courageous many years later all at once before the election against Trump, trotted out by Gloria Allred & made into spectacles. And then...nothing.

Partisanship aside, dollars to donuts there's other things at play here.

It seems likely this is the result of a particular corporate culture. That's not something that is limited to right wing news organizations - but I wouldn't be shocked to find out that there are all sorts of shenanigans that took place at Fox and that people at all levels of management either turned a blind eye or even encouraged it.

The BBC is in all sorts of hot water over the things that happened there in the 70s and 80s (and possibly beyond).

[Tacachale]

Could be true, could not be. I'm gonna reserve judgement instead of jumping on any bandwagons. If he's found guilty, he should def pay.

Although here's some more allegations of other men at Fox recently:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/24/media/andrea-tantaros-fox-news-electronic-surveillance-lawsuit/
http://www.politicususa.com/2017/04/23/trump-pal-sean-hannity-accused-sexual-harassment-fox-news-scandal-grows.html

So all of these, all right wing, all at once. It looks fishy to be honest. Kinda like how a dozen women all of a sudden became courageous many years later all at once before the election against Trump, trotted out by Gloria Allred & made into spectacles. And then...nothing.

Partisanship aside, dollars to donuts there's other things at play here.

That might be credible if there weren't many women over the course of many years, who both O'Reilly and the network settled with. There have been two people total at Fox ousted so far, so it's not like it's the whole company, although there may be more coming. Fox would hardly be the first media empire where there was a culture of sexual harassment.

Also, the Trump stuff was hardly "nothing". He admitted to sexually harassing women and teenagers by barging into changing rooms. He bragged in the Access Hollywood recording about doing things that at least 15 different women have accused him of - groping and kissing them without consent. One of the women "trotted out by Gloria Allred" is still suing him. It's the kind of thing that would sink a candidate in any other race.

[spuwho]

The Sean Hannity accusations are interesting because they are coming out "now".

He has been getting a full frontal attack from the NYTimes lately for his reported conversations with Trump. 

And honestly, he doesnt strike me as the "womanizing" type.

But he has made a lot enemies on both realms of the political spectrum and so right now, post Ailes and O'Reilly, he has a big bullseye on his back.

In fact he has been saying on his radio show that he has expecting a big personal attack on him once Trump got elected, so maybe this is it.

He said he has been audited by the IRS so many times during the Clinton and Obama Administrations, that he expects them every year now. He admits he "overpays" his taxes just to keep the dogs off his back.

He refuses to attend the DC Press Dinner every year.

This doesnt sound like a guy who would proposition a total stranger knowing the fallout it would bring.

Anything is possible, and I am not saying the woman is lying, I am only saying it doesnt sound right.

Ailes and O'Reilly always came off as arrogant, Hannity, much less so.

[spuwho]

Well I guess this is just redrubbing of old stuff.....the accuser is an attorney and said that "under any definitions of the law, he did not harass me"

The reason she was never invited back to Fox News is because she never followed the instructions of the producer and then complained afterward.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/despite-reports-fmr-fox-guest-now-claims-she-was-never-sexually-harassed-by-sean-hannity/

[peestandingup]

Could be true, could not be. I'm gonna reserve judgement instead of jumping on any bandwagons. If he's found guilty, he should def pay.

Although here's some more allegations of other men at Fox recently:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/24/media/andrea-tantaros-fox-news-electronic-surveillance-lawsuit/
http://www.politicususa.com/2017/04/23/trump-pal-sean-hannity-accused-sexual-harassment-fox-news-scandal-grows.html

So all of these, all right wing, all at once. It looks fishy to be honest. Kinda like how a dozen women all of a sudden became courageous many years later all at once before the election against Trump, trotted out by Gloria Allred & made into spectacles. And then...nothing.

Partisanship aside, dollars to donuts there's other things at play here.

That might be credible if there weren't many women over the course of many years, who both O'Reilly and the network settled with. There have been two people total at Fox ousted so far, so it's not like it's the whole company, although there may be more coming. Fox would hardly be the first media empire where there was a culture of sexual harassment.

Also, the Trump stuff was hardly "nothing". He admitted to sexually harassing women and teenagers by barging into changing rooms. He bragged in the Access Hollywood recording about doing things that at least 15 different women have accused him of - groping and kissing them without consent. One of the women "trotted out by Gloria Allred" is still suing him. It's the kind of thing that would sink a candidate in any other race.

Hey, I hear ya. And I'll be the first to call them all raping bastards if these women can prove it. But I'm automatically leery of things like this these days, which is sad because it actually does happen a lot. And its actual rape or harassment, not "someone prominent said an off color thing to me this one time 20 years ago so I'm gunna sue em & call it harassment" kinda deal. I had a colleague get his entire professional career ruined because he didn't promote a woman (who was seriously awful at her job. like, awful & unqualified for the promotion in every way), she lawyered up, raised a stink about sexism, they demoted him & she's still there. She flat out lied. And all because the place is public & they didn't wanna look bad. I wont say what it is, but everyone here knows it. People are so quick to claim racism, sexism, or whatever other "ism" these days as well. Its actually gotten quite crazy.

Regarding the other anchors, it looks to me like a coordinated effort if I'm being honest. Regardless, its safe to say that the media, organizations, Hollywood, a ton of government agencies, the "system", whatever you wanna call it did NOT want Trump to win under any circumstances. He was an easy target sure, but they literally hit him with everything but the kitchen sink. To where it dove into crazy shit like him pissing on a Russian hotel bed that Obama slept on with hookers surrounding him in a "super secret intel document" (wink wink), or pushing the Russian hacker & collusion narrative 24/7 (notice that went away too), on & on. Fox was basically the only major network that pushed back against any of this (namely their high profile evening lineup), has much higher ratings, etc. I'm not saying any of its true (they could all be a vile pack of rapists for all I know), but it wouldn't shock me given what's already taken place & this is the next attack wave.

Regarding his "grab em by the pu**y" comment. That was like a decade ago, he was recorded secretly & talking like a lot of guys talk. I'm not taking up for him (it was pretty gross), but I'm also not gonna pretend a lot of guys don't talk like that when they think no one else is listening. Hell, I've said similar things before around friends when I'm just joking around. But that doesn't mean I'd ever harass a women or touch her if she didn't want me to. Never have, never will. My point is, I don't think pointing to that as some admission of a harassing womanizer holds much water. We all knew Trump was a crass potty mouth well before that, which is why it didn't seem to matter anyway.

Anyways, that's my thoughts on all this for now. One thing's for sure though, when the norm gets broken such as it has with this election, things sure do get nuts. Up is down, left is right, who the hell knows what to even believe anymore.

[spuwho]

I had about 30m to listen to Hannity today and he said the attacks have gotten ridiculous so he has decided to lawyer up and pursue legal action now.

He was only upset because it didnt come out like a ball rolling down a hill, it came out on several press and websites at the exact same time. That has him convinced that some entity is working on this.

[Tacachale]

Could be true, could not be. I'm gonna reserve judgement instead of jumping on any bandwagons. If he's found guilty, he should def pay.

Although here's some more allegations of other men at Fox recently:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/24/media/andrea-tantaros-fox-news-electronic-surveillance-lawsuit/
http://www.politicususa.com/2017/04/23/trump-pal-sean-hannity-accused-sexual-harassment-fox-news-scandal-grows.html

So all of these, all right wing, all at once. It looks fishy to be honest. Kinda like how a dozen women all of a sudden became courageous many years later all at once before the election against Trump, trotted out by Gloria Allred & made into spectacles. And then...nothing.

Partisanship aside, dollars to donuts there's other things at play here.

That might be credible if there weren't many women over the course of many years, who both O'Reilly and the network settled with. There have been two people total at Fox ousted so far, so it's not like it's the whole company, although there may be more coming. Fox would hardly be the first media empire where there was a culture of sexual harassment.

Also, the Trump stuff was hardly "nothing". He admitted to sexually harassing women and teenagers by barging into changing rooms. He bragged in the Access Hollywood recording about doing things that at least 15 different women have accused him of - groping and kissing them without consent. One of the women "trotted out by Gloria Allred" is still suing him. It's the kind of thing that would sink a candidate in any other race.

Hey, I hear ya. And I'll be the first to call them all raping bastards if these women can prove it. But I'm automatically leery of things like this these days, which is sad because it actually does happen a lot. And its actual rape or harassment, not "someone prominent said an off color thing to me this one time 20 years ago so I'm gunna sue em & call it harassment" kinda deal. I had a colleague get his entire professional career ruined because he didn't promote a woman (who was seriously awful at her job. like, awful & unqualified for the promotion in every way), she lawyered up, raised a stink about sexism, they demoted him & she's still there. She flat out lied. And all because the place is public & they didn't wanna look bad. I wont say what it is, but everyone here knows it. People are so quick to claim racism, sexism, or whatever other "ism" these days as well. Its actually gotten quite crazy.

Regarding the other anchors, it looks to me like a coordinated effort if I'm being honest. Regardless, its safe to say that the media, organizations, Hollywood, a ton of government agencies, the "system", whatever you wanna call it did NOT want Trump to win under any circumstances. He was an easy target sure, but they literally hit him with everything but the kitchen sink. To where it dove into crazy shit like him pissing on a Russian hotel bed that Obama slept on with hookers surrounding him in a "super secret intel document" (wink wink), or pushing the Russian hacker & collusion narrative 24/7 (notice that went away too), on & on. Fox was basically the only major network that pushed back against any of this (namely their high profile evening lineup), has much higher ratings, etc. I'm not saying any of its true (they could all be a vile pack of rapists for all I know), but it wouldn't shock me given what's already taken place & this is the next attack wave.

Regarding his "grab em by the pu**y" comment. That was like a decade ago, he was recorded secretly & talking like a lot of guys talk. I'm not taking up for him (it was pretty gross), but I'm also not gonna pretend a lot of guys don't talk like that when they think no one else is listening. Hell, I've said similar things before around friends when I'm just joking around. But that doesn't mean I'd ever harass a women or touch her if she didn't want me to. Never have, never will. My point is, I don't think pointing to that as some admission of a harassing womanizer holds much water. We all knew Trump was a crass potty mouth well before that, which is why it didn't seem to matter anyway.

Anyways, that's my thoughts on all this for now. One thing's for sure though, when the norm gets broken such as it has with this election, things sure do get nuts. Up is down, left is right, who the hell knows what to even believe anymore.

It's possible that the Ailes, O'Reilly and Hannity accusations are making the news now due to some coordinated effort. But with both Ailes and O'Reilly (not Hannity so far as I can see), they go back many years and involve many different women. With O'Reilly at least, it's even been making the news for over 10 years, just not with this kind of impact. Perhaps there's a coordinated effort, but I think it's just as likely that it's due to the fact that the public and media have started to change how we deal with sexual abuse, or some combination of the two. We've started taking victims seriously. Bill Cosby is the case in point on that.

There are certainly false accusations out there (I've seen it myself as well), and it's understandable for a company to back an employee if they think there's nothing to the accusation. But when it's happening multiple times, with multiple women all reporting the same things, it's much less likely that they're all lying. At that point you have to ask what's more likely - that multiple unrelated women are falsely accusing someone over the course of years, or that the problem's with the guy at the center of it.

As for Trump, my point with the recording isn't that he said vile things. It's that what he said - not just that he thinks he can "grab 'em by the pussy", but that he likes to "just start kissing them... I don't even wait" - is exactly like all the accusations that he groped and kissed women without consent. If he didn't have over a dozen women saying he did things exactly like what he jokes about there, it would be easier to overlook as simple locker room banter. It's beyond the fact that there are 15 unrelated women accusing him of sexual misconduct, the serial locker room peeping, and his general boorishness when it comes to women.

[BridgeTroll]

Sort of like Willey, Broaddrick and Jones huh...

[Tacachale]

Sort of like Willey, Broaddrick and Jones huh...

At least 2 of those (Broaddrick and Jones; not sure about Willey) are legit. I firmly believe that if those two stories broke today, it would be treated a lot differently by the media and the public. And they probably would have broken well before Clinton was elected, due to the internet and 24 hour news cycle.