IF THE CITY GAVE YOU THE SKYWAY?

[Keith-N-Jax]

Well if you put shops, restaurants and clubs in that area which is under utilized anyway, then yo dont worry about a half few events. Also why not think about planning more events in the off season off football, baseball etc all the land just sits there empty, when it could be a very vibrant areas. A train station also gives you access to metro park which hold many events. OCK I like your diagram.

[JeffreyS]

Mike is right that the north bank developements could be a catalyst to justify the skyway fot to people who haven't paid much attention.

[Ocklawaha]

Does this count? It's a 1/10th the cost of ours in US $$, but I almost forgot - 3Rd WORLD, We don't want to go there?! LOL!

4 Stations for the Sports Complex Ock?? LOL thats a lot man. The lot between the stadium & ballpark is perfect!!!! I think that is where the old coliseum used to be?? I could see the "Skyway Cafe" Restaurant there!!! A long with a Jacksonville Sports Museum.....Man that would be bad ass OCK what you think? 1 station at that location with a restaurant & museum apart of it!!!

It IS a perfect location my friend, except for one thing - It would duplicate the mistake on the Southbank of making a commuter lot so darn hard to get to, people would just jet on downtown. We MUST build at key intersections where we can capture those CHOICE RIDERS! (riders that would otherwise drive the whole distance). Once exposed to our Skyway or Streetcar, or Commuter Rail transit, we then can win them over to our BRT and Bus feeders.

Keep coming with the ideas troops, this WILL BE SHARED WITH JTA and the City.

OCKLAWAHA

[Jason]

Ock, I don't think anyone will chose to drive into the outskirts of the core and ride the skyway in the rest of the way as long as parking is so plentiful.  The key is to catch these riders in the burbs where all the traffic is and funnel them in on commuter trains.  IMO, satellite parking garages won't live up to their potential until parking is scarce and the traffic downtown resembles the 1950's.

[thelakelander]

I agree.  The skyway won't meet its true potential until there is a regional transit system in place to feed it with a steady stream of riders.

[Ocklawaha]

Jason
Ock, I don't think anyone will chose to drive into the outskirts of the core and ride the skyway in the rest of the way as long as parking is so plentiful.  The key is to catch these riders in the burbs where all the traffic is and funnel them in on commuter trains.  IMO, satellite parking garages won't live up to their potential until parking is scarce and the traffic downtown resembles the 1950's.

thelakelander
I agree.  The skyway won't meet its true potential until there is a regional transit system in place to feed it with a steady stream of riders.

OUCH! Say fella's remember the BIG PICTURE that this started with? I'll repeat for those that missed my rant:

PARKING 101 - OCKLA-THOUGHT

All street curbside parking goes FREE, with hourly, 1/2 hour, 4 hour etc... control from Parking Enforcement which would be a division of JTA.

All City Center Garages would be sold to private investors for "WHATEVER" use. They would be required to open the retail (where the design has it built in), and they would pay a PER SPACE occupied tax which would be equal to the former meter revenue. Thus NO LOSS.

All new municipal garages would be - satellite parking garages-operated by JTA and a new law REQUIRES them to be transit centers.

Now your one of 20,000 pouring over the new Matthews Bridge, you can go on and pay "double the old rate" or you can ride. FREEDOM MAN, It's a beautiful thing...

OCKLAWAHA

[Shwaz]

I would add a bar car.

[Jason]

Sorry Ock, you already had it covered! 

[Coolyfett]

Here's the key. Neither of my plans counts on sports or concerts to keep it running. My planning will always include the commuter. The quicker we can get them to the edge of the metro, be it downtown, or Gate Parkway, and load them in mass transit, the better.

If at the same time, we can get them to use the bus, BRT, streetcar, Commuter Rail, or Skyway in some combination, then we are better off and will remove cars from the streets. A dollar spent on the SKYWAY to enlarge it to be included in a transit-NETWORK, is a dollar we won't be spending on lanes.

The TIMES-UNION is clueless and ran with another hack piece on this sick little 1/2 system. Like trying to sail on 1/2 of the QEII, you might save money by building half a ship, but it's only going in one direction... DOWN!
They seem to think the status quo will eventully work as long as we just wait it out. YEAH RIGHT, My thinking says they might be right - perhaps the next ice age. Until then we better fix it or remove it, and a fix is worlds better, since very little enlargment is needed for it to make sense.

SKYWAY RIDERSHIP
Fewer people have been using the Skyway:
There were about 70,000 passengers in January 2007.
By the time fares increased from 35 cents to 50 cents that October, ridership was down to 45,000.
Since January, it has averaged just 40,000.
Source: The Florida Times-Union
Last modified 8/5/2008 - 3:11 pm
Originally created 080608

Skyway: Proceed carefully


By The Times-Union


Did you hear that a local Rotary Club started meeting in the Skyway?
   
The club needed to go somewhere with a lot of empty seats. Ba boom.

That's one of many jokes about the elevated rail cars that run downtown, carrying only a fraction of the passengers first envisioned.

And, with ridership dropping, the jokes aren't likely to subside.

Not that the Jacksonville Transportation Authority is laughing. To the contrary, the JTA insists the Skyway still has potential.

First, JTA spokesman Mike Miller points out, some unforeseen circumstances hurt ridership - a bank pulled its offices out of downtown and more parking garages were built.

Then, fares went from 35 cents to 50 cents, and that hurt ridership.

But was that such a bad thing? Fares generated more revenue.

Despite less ridership, higher fares cut the losses - which even now run about $4 million a year.

What's harder to justify is the JTA's interest in expanding the route. There was talk of extending it to the football stadium.

That sounds nice, but the cost is difficult to justify for a handful of events each year.

Now, the JTA is taking a look at a Skyway extension down Riverside Avenue.

Why? A lot of housing and condos are being planned in the Brooklyn area.

Steven Arrington, JTA director of resource development, stresses that nothing is imminent, however, adding that "because of the real estate slump, it may be a while" before any decisions would be made.

Good. Go slow.

A bus "trolley" already serves that route - and the JTA is considering a real trolley system (streetcars on rails, powered by overhead electricity) that take Brooklyn residents downtown.

Miller insists the last Skyway extension - across the river - may yet work out.

Apartments and condos are being planned on the Northbank, he says.

"When they are done, you'll see a dramatic increase in Skyway ridership."

Let's hope so. Like it or not, we have the Skyway.

It's good that the JTA keeps looking for a way to make it work, painstakingly examining one option after another almost like working a jigsaw puzzle.

But there isn't a lot in the Skyway's history to inspire confidence.

Be very careful before spending a lot of money to extend the line.

Two wrongs don't make a right. They make two wrongs.

Well JTA and City Hall can rejoyce, looks like I've done gone and PISSED OFF THE TIMES-UNION too now. The author of the above story called and interviewed me twice, and got a copy of all my articles + a map showing how we could extend it. I spotted the HACK JOB right away and he got NOTHING for ammo from me. I called Mike Miller and gave him a heads up too. This kind of crap reporting needs to stop. We need to get behind JTA when they have something right, and expansion, be it ever so small, IS RIGHT! To make a long story short, I got cut out of the article - (gee what a pisser! LOL!)

MANNNN!!! Well reading this T-U article I keep saying to myself "this guy is taking shots at MJ.com" "He is trying say the ideas of the MJ.com members don't get it" Then BAM!!! Ock says the guy interviewed him. WOW!!! You guys keep pushing down there lol, I love it!!

This article was written to make people feel wrong for wanting the Skyway system to work. The turtles want the skyway dead. Backwards.

[Ocklawaha]

I would add a bar car.

Did you know it IS POSSIBLE? true. In fact the bar cars of the Metro North lines of NYC are said to have sealed more big $$ deals then any other spot on earth! TRUE! We could use some of that creative thought, trouble is the Skyway is to short for anything but a shot of REBEL YELL or SOCO... But maybe a small vendor bar at some stations would work. Meanwhile there is always commuter rail, which is what Metro-North is, so why not a FIRST CLASS LOUNGE to St. Augustine? Green Cove Springs? Yulee? Macclenny? Gainesville? (okay, maybe not Gainesville...HIC!).

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Then, fares went from 35 cents to 50 cents, and that hurt ridership.

But was that such a bad thing? Fares generated more revenue.

Despite less ridership, higher fares cut the losses - which even now run about $4 million a year.

MANNNN!!! Well reading this T-U article I keep saying to myself "this guy is taking shots at MJ.com" "He is trying say the ideas of the MJ.com members don't get it" Then BAM!!! Ock says the guy interviewed him. WOW!!! You guys keep pushing down there lol, I love it!!

This article was written to make people feel wrong for wanting the Skyway system to work. The turtles want the skyway dead. Backwards.

You got that right my friend, this guy is a turtle in his own class. What kind of twisted logic celebrates cutting the loss at a huge loss of ridership?  This is crazy think. For our TU types, the idea of MASS TRANSIT is to get people out of their cars and offer them an alternative, that is safe, swift and comfortable. This guy would celebrate closing down the system and renting it out for high roller partys at 4 Million a month. "Now let me see... duh, dats 300 people, and I gave dem 4 mil for November, wow my own toy train for a month..." Stupid is as Stupid does...
and the TIMES UNION CHEERS?

OCKLAWAHA