Dow up 450 points!!!

[BridgeTroll]

he signed a bill a couple of years ago enabling him to have all power in the event of a major crises.

Really??  What specific bill would that be?

[heights unknown]

Well its tricky isnt it?

I say let them fail.  Prosecute every last one of the profiteers and executives who took their golden parachutes.

Take away their ill gotten gains and begin paying back the taxpayers whose money is bailing them out.

When the positions were reversed, they visited the same attitude on their own investments and debtors.

Perhaps there is presently capital in the world besides the easy chinese money.

If we are going to borrow however, then dont borrow from an economy strong enough to overpower us, and thereby put our nation's competitive future in thrall.  Its poison.

Let it fall, restructure, and start again from scratch.

The things that made this country prosperous and great are still there, and with our strategic alliances with NAFTA and NATO,  we will go through a hard time, a VERY hard time, but at the end of it we will be stronger and wholly self sustaining.

The Japanese suffered just such a humiliation at the end of WW2, and they recovered.

Stephendare;

I respect your posts and opinions.  But I must ask, did you go to college?  You must have been taught the basics of economics while in High School and College.  Do you have any idea what would happen if we just let these banks (especially the large ones) fail?  It would be catastrophic for America and the entire world (economically) and would spell certain death to the way of life that everyone is now used to.  Think real carefully about what you are saying.

It would be like nuking the entire world without nuclear missiles/warheads.

Heights Unknown

[BridgeTroll]

I agree... and he knows better.

[heights unknown]

he signed a bill a couple of years ago enabling him to have all power in the event of a major crises.

Really??  What specific bill would that be?

My bad; it is not a bill but a directive.  It is National Security Presidential Directive 51 which gives the President (and in the present scenario President Bush) all power in the event of a major catastrophic emergency; it supersedes the previous National Emergency Act or National Continuity Act which was initiated by the Clinton Administration.  He would in effect have all absolute power over the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government.  It was signed in May 2007.  Here is a small excerpt that describes the President's role during and after a major catastrophic crises or emergency:

"According to the directive, in the event of a “catastrophic emergency,” the president would lead the entire federal government, not just the executive branch, and would be responsible “for ensuring constitutional government.” Such an emergency is defined by the document as “any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the US population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government function.” Incidents falling into this category would not be limited to hostile attacks, the document makes clear, but would also include “localized acts of nature” and “accidents.” While the directive says that there would be “a cooperative effort among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Federal Government,” this effort would be “coordinated by the President, as a matter of comity with respect to the legislative and judicial branches and with proper respect for the constitutional separation of powers.” "

Many fear the President would have certain, absolute dictatorial powers and the country (nation) would become a marxist, socialist dictatorial regime, the very thing that at present we try to prevent.  

The thing that "worries" me is that Bush changed this directive secretly, and quietly without much fanfare and did not consult with any other constitutents in Congress or the Senate.  Another thing that worries me is that I don't trust this man; he could instigate or start something in the world in order for him to justify this possible "power grab."

Please pass this info to all others in the forum.

Heights Unknown

[BridgeTroll]

More info...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidential_Directive

Turns out it is not to out of the ordinary...

While similar executive security directives have been issued by previous presidents, their texts have been kept secret; this is the first to be made public in part.

[heights unknown]

Well its tricky isnt it?

I say let them fail.  Prosecute every last one of the profiteers and executives who took their golden parachutes.

Take away their ill gotten gains and begin paying back the taxpayers whose money is bailing them out.

When the positions were reversed, they visited the same attitude on their own investments and debtors.

Perhaps there is presently capital in the world besides the easy chinese money.

If we are going to borrow however, then dont borrow from an economy strong enough to overpower us, and thereby put our nation's competitive future in thrall.  Its poison.

Let it fall, restructure, and start again from scratch.

The things that made this country prosperous and great are still there, and with our strategic alliances with NAFTA and NATO,  we will go through a hard time, a VERY hard time, but at the end of it we will be stronger and wholly self sustaining.

The Japanese suffered just such a humiliation at the end of WW2, and they recovered.

If we let them fall, there may not be anything left to enable restructuring or rebuilding of America and the world's economy and/or finances; this is why it must be fixed NOW!  (in all due respect)

Heights Unknown

[heights unknown]

More info...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_and_Homeland_Security_Presidential_Directive

Turns out it is not to out of the ordinary...

While similar executive security directives have been issued by previous presidents, their texts have been kept secret; this is the first to be made public in part.

True "Troll" it may not be out of the ordinary (the directives for the President's role in the event of a national emergency), but it is unusual in that the previous directives did not give the President "all out power;" this one does, and, he did it secretly without consulting with anyone outside of his immediate advisory circle.

Heights Unknown

[heights unknown]

At present we are in a crises, but it is not yet an emergency; it will become an emergency if more banks fail and the stock market and economy crashes.......then Bush could declare the emergency and step in and control the entire federal government; in essence, he could do pretty much anything he wants.  People read this directive (NPSD-51), very carefully, and with a fine tooth comb; it is not as ordinary and harmless as you might think.

Heights Unknown

[Doctor_K]

Get ready for another potential blockbuster day, in the positive direction:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080919/wall_street.html

Stocks head for big rally after US government indicates it is working on a bank rescue plan

NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street headed for a huge rally Friday after the U.S. government said it is creating a plan to rescue the nation's troubled banks from their souring debts.

If a plan is put in place to help the banking industry, it could help alleviate the uncertainty that has been sending the markets into tumult over the past week. Lending has grinded to a virtual standstill in the wake of the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.
...
Ahead of the market's open Friday, Dow Jones industrial futures rose 334, or 3.04 percent, to 11,319. Standard & Poor's 500 index futures surged 47.70, or 3.96 percent, to 1,250.90. Nasdaq 100 index futures rose 37.50, or 2.19 percent, to 1,746.00.

Overseas stock markets soared.

Japan's Nikkei stock average jumped 3.8 percent, and Hong Kong's Hang Seng index surged 9.61 percent. In Europe, Britain's FTSE 100 was up 7.54 percent, Germany's DAX index was up 4.58 percent, and France's CAC-40 was up 6.91 percent.

More Wisdom of the Crowds, or obscene profit-taking setup on the trading floor?  Or both?  Or something else?

Definitely crazy times in progress.

[BridgeTroll]

Here is the entire document...

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-51.htm

I do not think it is as evil as you are making it out to be... an excerpt

(a) Ensuring the continued functioning of our form of government under the Constitution, including the functioning of the three separate branches of government;

(b) Providing leadership visible to the Nation and the world and maintaining the trust and confidence of the American people;

(c) Defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and preventing or interdicting attacks against the United States or its people, property, or interests;

(d) Maintaining and fostering effective relationships with foreign nations;

(e) Protecting against threats to the homeland and bringing to justice perpetrators of crimes or attacks against the United States or its people, property, or interests;

(f) Providing rapid and effective response to and recovery from the domestic consequences of an attack or other incident;

(g) Protecting and stabilizing the Nation's economy and ensuring public confidence in its financial systems; and

(h) Providing for critical Federal Government services that address the national health, safety, and welfare needs of the United States.

[heights unknown]

Uncertain times indeed; but they'd better work hard, long, and thorough because if none of this works, and if none of what they are doing is permanent (a cure), the world is in for a very long, hard haul!

Heights Unknown

[scaleybark]

It's time to throw caution to the winds and go all in!  The feds will pick up your slack! (This is sarcasm.)

[heights unknown]

I respectfully disagree Troll, and we are all entitled of course to our opinions.  In my OPINION there is no need for the President to have ALL OUT POWER in times of emergency; though the text of the NSPD states that the three branches would work together with the President vice one over the other it is clear that ONE MAN will be DICTATING all of the government's affairs and decision making which in my opinion is DICTATORSHIP.  This is not how the American government is supposed to work, emergency or none.

Heights Unknown

[Charleston native]

The problem with this Stephen is the Clinton or Obama administrations would have had NO choice but to do something similar to save these institutions.  They would not have let them fail either.  To claim that this is simply a bailout of Bush cronies is false and YOU know it Stephen.  YOU Stephen should be ashamed because you know better.  You are using this crisis to promote your political views and candidate.  For you to state that you prefer these institutions to fail is disingenuous because you... of all people... understand the extreme consequenses of that action and why it must be avoided at virtually any cost.  The democrats in congress are now falling in line with the administration to find solutions to this crisis.  Apparently THEY feel the same way.  These institutions cannot be allowed to fail.

Stephendare;

I respect your posts and opinions.  But I must ask, did you go to college?  You must have been taught the basics of economics while in High School and College.  Do you have any idea what would happen if we just let these banks (especially the large ones) fail?  It would be catastrophic for America and the entire world (economically) and would spell certain death to the way of life that everyone is now used to.  Think real carefully about what you are saying.

It would be like nuking the entire world without nuclear missiles/warheads.

I have to admit I'm not entirely informed on the financial crisis that has been getting out of control, so I withheld complete judgement on Stephen's explanation. While his approach is very laissez-faire, it is also very dangerous, as both of you have pointed out. Like I said in my response to Stephen's "solution", our country's circumstances are very different in comparison to Japan's, and since we have instituted the FDIC, the agency is required to pay and insure all accounts up to $100K, no matter what. In other words, the government (taxpayers) would be funding some sort of bailout, either with each individual account in the failed institutions or with the entire company overall...the latter choice is being made.

[BridgeTroll]

I respectfully disagree Troll, and we are all entitled of course to our opinions.  In my OPINION there is no need for the President to have ALL OUT POWER in times of emergency; though the text of the NSPD states that the three branches would work together with the President vice one over the other it is clear that ONE MAN will be DICTATING all of the government's affairs and decision making which in my opinion is DICTATORSHIP.  This is not how the American government is supposed to work, emergency or none.

Heights Unknown

Read the document.  This is not what it says....

It is the policy of the United States to maintain a comprehensive and effective continuity capability composed of Continuity of Operations and Continuity of Government programs in order to ensure the preservation of our form of government under the Constitution and the continuing performance of National Essential Functions under all conditions.