Only the Little People Pay Taxes.

[downtownparks]

People making less than 200k a year obviously.  But the video does a much better job of explaining it.

That number seems VERY high to be considered "middle class", let alone "lower middle class". I will try to find some documentation, but from what I understand lower middle class would be from 35K-55K single, 45K-100K married/household.

[Driven1]

i would say lower middle class would be 30K-40K single, 41K-70K married/household.  all depends on the area of the country too.

middle class would be 41K-70K single, 71K-100K married/household IMO.

[downtownparks]

I try to avoid class warefare after lunch. Maybe I will watch it tomm.

[downtownparks]

I try to avoid class warefare after lunch. Maybe I will watch it tomm.

Tax evasion is tax warfare?

well um. cool.

No, telling the 10% of the populace that pays 75% of the tax burden that they dont pay enough, or rather, are breaking the law by evading taxes, is class warfare.

[downtownparks]

According to the tax foundation, in 2004 the top 1% of income earners, including the super rich top .9% earned about 16% of the income, yet they paid almost 40% of the tax burden.

My question then becomes, who will use that money better, business owners who deliver goods and services and create jobs, or the government?

Of course this is based on the premise that they arent stuffing money in a silo somewhere and swimming in it like Scrooge McDuck...

[willydenn]

European Levels of Taxation:  Barack Obama's Tax Plan:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm1973.cfm

Why not post from Obama's website, if it is HIS plan, instead of the right-wing Heritage Foundation?  

Vicup,
As always Obama is vague and there is no detailed plan on his site.  The site basically says he'll raise taxes (through not extending the current tax cuts), releive certain elderly people from paying their taxes, and cutting taxes by $1000 for "working families."  The Heritage Foundation provides excellent analysis of the plan that "progressives" don't want to discuss, because their plan won't hold up to scrutiny.  The other reason is to counter the uber left-wing Huffington Post article.  The Fair Tax IS a better alternative than the oppressive tax system we have now.  Plus I love to instigate.   

Sorry I hijacked your thread Stephen.

[downtownparks]

No, telling the 10% of the populace that pays 75% of the tax burden that they dont pay enough, or rather, are breaking the law by evading taxes, is class warfare.

are you seriously under the misapprehension that tax evasion is not a crime, but instead a political philosophy?

additionally since the top 10 percent owns 80 percent of the wealth, but only pays your alleged 75 percent of the tax burden *the actual number is much less----would you say that was proportionally fair?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States

Oh, no, I agree, if someone is not paying thier legal amount of tax, it is a crime. I am not contesting that point. However, stating that "only the little people pay taxes" is egregiously inaccurate.

According to the Tax Foundation, in 2004 the bottom 80% of income earners made about 47% of the income, but they paid less than 15% of the tax burden. Would that 80% number include "the small people"? If so, it would seem to be that their tax burden is significantly less than their income percentage, and as such, are NOT the only ones paying taxes.

[uptowngirl]

That number seems VERY high to be considered "middle class", let alone "lower middle class". I will try to find some documentation, but from what I understand lower middle class would be from 35K-55K single, 45K-100K married/household.

Are you kidding me? If you truly believe this then you also must believe the majority in Springfield must be super rich. 

Poor-have nothing
American poor- thinks they have nothing
lower middle class-just making
middle class- making it
upper middle class-making it and saving
rich- making it with no worries and saving
Super rich- doesn't matter because they have enough money to last forever

[civil42806]

"Warren Buffett in fact found that his receptionist was taxed at a much higher rate than he was personally.

Its about fraud and stealing, while taking higher and higher tax cuts so that the only people paying taxes are the lower middle class."

Did Mr Buffett then write a check to the treasury to make up for his severe under taxation?  If he feels hes not paying his fair share then he is more than able to freely pay more.  Any bets to that question.

[uptowngirl]

I don't agree, I am not lower middle class and I pay my fair share of taxes. I think what is missing here is ALL of the middle class is paying more than their fair share of the taxes. The only people getting away with paying less are the "American poor" (they actually get refunds for paying NOTHING in) and the super rich who can afford to "shelter" their money. To try and draw a distinction between the subclasses of middle class" is ridiculous as it pertains to this specific topic. The entire middle class is over burdened, and under appreciated.  Is there really any reason to then pit the subclasses against each other?

[Eazy E]

I try to avoid class warefare after lunch. Maybe I will watch it tomm.

Tax evasion is tax warfare?

well um. cool.

No, telling the 10% of the populace that pays 75% of the tax burden that they dont pay enough, or rather, are breaking the law by evading taxes, is class warfare.

And this is why we don't get anything done as far as equality in this country. 
It is NOT class warfare to state that some people make much, much more than others and should therefore pay more in taxes.  It seems like all the mega-rich who complain about taxes are the same ones flying American flags on their (foreign) SUVS: hey you like America? Fine, then pay your damn fair share and help it keep going.  If you think it’s not fair to pay taxes that are then “wasted” on over-cumbersome govt, then I expect to see you protesting about the literally hundreds of millions, if not billions, LOSTâ€"as in, no one has any idea where it isâ€"on Iraq reconstruction, and/or overpaid to administration crony companies like KBR and Halliburton who are taking our tax dollars in Iraq and literally pissing them away on luxury trailers and SUVs in Iraq.

In short, it is AMERICA, the country, that has provided these people with the opportunity to live like kings, so if they appreciate the opportunities they have been given to live better than 99% of the rest of the world, then they can pay their fair share.  I know when I am one day making the big bucks, you won’t hear me whining about, ‘ooooooh, my taxes! class warfare, whaaaa’.

[downtownparks]

That is one mighty broad brush your painting with there Easy.

[uptowngirl]

Wait a minute, help me understand here. So are you stating that people who make more money use more government services and therefore should be required to pay more for the additional services they utilize? Can you prove they utilize more services, therefore needing to pay more for those services? Shouldn’t all people pay for what they utilize? Or are you stating this from a socialistic point of view? That if you work real hard to make more money for your family it is your duty to give any extra money beyond housing and food to those who don't work as hard? Do you really think everyone making any type of good living is responsible for the corruption in government? Don't you think anyone of voting age is responsible? How about we stop paying out refunds to people who don't pay in first, then go on and ask for more money? How can you state this isn’t class warfare when you want someone to turn over their hard earned cash so it can then be handed over to someone who doesn’t pay into the system? Why are the responsible working people of America being punished? Do you not think they under stress enough? What happens if they all throw their hands up in the air and say screw it? Tax increases only really hurt the working middle class, not the super rich. The rich can afford to find ways around increases. The fact that most liberals lump the middle class in with the rich is why you get class warfare comments. Perhaps the middle class is sick and tired of carrying the whole country? Ever think about that?

btw, I think most people would say it is THEIR hard work that has gotten them where they are. There are rich people in third world countries, so this argument doesn't fly.

[Eazy E]

Wait a minute, help me understand here. So are you stating that people who make more money use more government services and therefore should be required to pay more for the additional services they utilize? Can you prove they utilize more services, therefore needing to pay more for those services? Shouldn’t all people pay for what they utilize? Or are you stating this from a socialistic point of view? That if you work real hard to make more money for your family it is your duty to give any extra money beyond housing and food to those who don't work as hard? Do you really think everyone making any type of good living is responsible for the corruption in government? Don't you think anyone of voting age is responsible? How about we stop paying out refunds to people who don't pay in first, then go on and ask for more money? How can you state this isn’t class warfare when you want someone to turn over their hard earned cash so it can then be handed over to someone who doesn’t pay into the system? Why are the responsible working people of America being punished? Do you not think they under stress enough? What happens if they all throw their hands up in the air and say screw it? Tax increases only really hurt the working middle class, not the super rich. The rich can afford to find ways around increases. The fact that most liberals lump the middle class in with the rich is why you get class warfare comments. Perhaps the middle class is sick and tired of carrying the whole country? Ever think about that?

btw, I think most people would say it is THEIR hard work that has gotten them where they are. There are rich people in third world countries, so this argument doesn't fly.

1. Most of the rich people I know do not work as hard as the poorer people I know. In fact, they work much, much less and not nearly as hard.
2. Most of the rich people I know, if not all, got to where they are because they were born into that money or dad's connections got them the job that is making them big bucks.

In my book, it goes without saying that if you are making several times whata poor or average person is making, then you should be paying much in more taxes.

Also, for clarification, when I say rich, I am talking about people under 30 making well over 100K/yr, or 40+ making 200K or more.

[uptowngirl]

I do get your point, but your "rich pay range" is what I don't get. That pay range could include someone graduating from college with lots of debt, could include doctors with high student loans and malpractice insurance, and could also include families, extended families. Most people who grew up rich and get jobs because of their parents are making a lot more than the income range you have given. You are in fact including middle class families in your "rich pay range". An average MBA grad can start out at 80K in the south, they aren't rich, yet they have worked hard and usually are just starting out on their career. You want to penalize them because they worked their butt off through school to get a higher paying job? Do you know 200K for a family in San Francisco is not much? Do you want only foreign doctors whose countries have paid for their schooling so they can afford to live and work here? The point being DTP is right; this is too wide a brush. Besides these aren’t the people skipping on their fair share of taxes, it is the RICH meaning people making WELL beyond their needs and believe me they are making a lot more than 200K a yr.

I am still waiting to hear why you want more form the middle class and think people who don’t pay in should get refunds.