Run city like business - Elect Peyton in 2003

[BridgeTroll]

I agree with both, in part. One point, is that this is free choice and we should and do, live where we wan. If you enjoy the "cookie cutter" homes and lifestyle, that's all well and good. If you live in a more densely populated area, then that too is good.

I live in Springfield, which is well populated and close enough to downtown, and other great areas of town. I feel that overall, this is a very safe neighborhood and it's certainly not dangerous....although I'm well aware that crime happens everywhere...cookie cutter neighborhoods included. For the most part, I can leave my door unlocked, although I generally don't....again, it's all choice and none of us have the right to 'chide' the other for where we've opted to live and how we live.

you're right it's all about personal choices and if I sounded like I put down anyone please accept my apologies, it is hard to impart inflection in print. My complaint is with the attitudes displayed by that gal who demands that a "better" kind of person should be recruited to live in JAX, to her better appears to be a person who shares her pioneering spirit and anyone who chooses life in the burbs to be held in contempt. That view is very prevalent amongst the urbanistas and I think attitudes like that need to be shelved. regardless of the future of the core, the majority of people have chosen a suburban lifestyle, and for the core to survive it needs to attract pioneers and be attractive as a destination for the suburbanites for without the support the suburbanites can offer, the urban core cannot survive without the suburbanites. the moral to the story is that the urban pioneers need to keep on trying to revive downtown and they need to embrace and gain the support for their efforts from the suburbanites, holding the suburbanites out for castigation isn't the way to go

I agree 100%... You will never convince most suburbanites to move downtown but you will need their support for thing like trolleys, light rail etc.  It is much better to try and get suburbanites as an ally rather than a foe...

[jbm32206]

you're right it's all about personal choices and if I sounded like I put down anyone please accept my apologies, it is hard to impart inflection in print. My complaint is with the attitudes displayed by that gal who demands that a "better" kind of person should be recruited to live in JAX, to her better appears to be a person who shares her pioneering spirit and anyone who chooses life in the burbs to be held in contempt. That view is very prevalent amongst the urbanistas and I think attitudes like that need to be shelved. regardless of the future of the core, the majority of people have chosen a suburban lifestyle, and for the core to survive it needs to attract pioneers and be attractive as a destination for the suburbanites for without the support the suburbanites can offer, the urban core cannot survive without the suburbanites. the moral to the story is that the urban pioneers need to keep on trying to revive downtown and they need to embrace and gain the support for their efforts from the suburbanites, holding the suburbanites out for castigation isn't the way to go

No apologies needed...I wasn't saying anything about your post...in fact, I pretty much agreed with you....I just wanted to point out that it all boils down to personal choice as to where and how we opt to live. I just happen to live where I do because of the general beauty of Springfield and the fact that it's easy to pop onto the highway to get anywhere else in the city. I have also lived in an area on the far westside and northside, where it's much more rural...so I know and can appreciate both kinds of lifestyles...and find it wrong when someone else thinks we should all live the same way.

[jbm32206]

I agree 100%... You will never convince most suburbanites to move downtown but you will need their support for thing like trolleys, light rail etc.  It is much better to try and get suburbanites as an ally rather than a foe...

That's exactly right!

[brainstormer]

It's all good, apvb.  No hard feelings here.

[Springfield Girl]

apvbguy, I didn't mean to offend you. I have enjoyed reading your posts and believe it or not on most issues I am pretty conservative. It's not that I have a problem with people living in the suburbs, believe me I understand that urban living is not for everyone. The problem I have is with irresponsible behavior in our current environment. If I wanted to live at the beach I would find a job there and send my children to school there. Same goes for any other area of town. It's a free country and people can do as they please but I think it's irresponsible to continue unchecked sprawl and consumption. The point I was trying to make was that employees, working in Duval County that take their paychecks back home to other counties really don't help our city much.

[apvbguy]

The point I was trying to make was that employees, working in Duval County that take their paychecks back home to other counties really don't help our city much.

that is the flaw in your thinking!
anyone who comes into JAX for whatever reason is a potential customer for some business, a potential is there for them to return after hours for entertainment, dining or cultural activities and their presence should be welcomed by urban pioneers like yourself because you and your d/t living friends cannot turn JAX around alone.
The city needs to work harder to promote venues and activities in the core that will attract the suburbanites to the core, in order to see a revitalized core a critical mass of people, businesses and activities needs to realized.
the city has made some steps in the right direction but more needs to be done and having contempt for any one group of people, be they suburbanites or homeless or urban poor is counter productive

[apvbguy]

Well now there, I only partially agree.  In order to accomodate all those ponte vedrans and St. Johns County employees, Jacksonville had to build, then enlarge then improve then replace the bridge that makes JTB possible.

I wonder how many dinners and cocktails one would have to sell to make up the money (hundreds of millions) it took to build JTButler in sales taxes.

I suspect that Duval County would have been far wiser to simply pass on building the property tax escape freeway.

Also I think that Springfield Girl can have a different opinion from other posters without being 'flawed'.

check the demographics, if the people who have the money, suburbanites, continue their shunning of the core the core will never become the vibrant place that so many want. if urbanistas continue to exhibit their sophomoric provincialism exhibited here and many other places any revitalization is doomed from the get go.
If you think any urban area in the US or any other westernized nation can exist as an island, is completely self sufficient then you are seriously mistaken.

You need to grasp some people skills, a flaw in someones argument doesn't mean that the person who made the flawed argument is flawed.
I know you think you are never wrong but the reality is that we all have biases that affect our views and sometimes those views are flawed, in most cases that doesn't mean the person who makes a statement that has flaws in it is a person who is flawed, when you learn how to make that distinction, you might evolve into a decent contributor

[fatcat]

recall the mayor