City will seek Proposals for Shipyards + Met Park Combined Development

[CG7]

I go to the stadium to football games as well as things like the food fight etc. I also go to conventions and trade shows around the country (I'm in the wire business, we make up reasons to have trade shows) I'm just saying if you use it creatively (think outside the box if you will)
it has as much if not more usable space as most of the spaces in comparable cities, but all of the spaces are more high end. I would rather come to a space like that than say the Kansas city convention center.

[thelakelander]

BTW, I'm spending the next two days at the David Lawrence Center in Pittsburgh - it's 1.5M SqFt, and has a Westin attached. While a lot larger, from what I see online this should be a model for Jacksonville. I'll let you know my thoughts.

http://www.pittsburghcc.com

Hmm...right in the middle of the downtown core and not too far away from North Shore and the Strip District....

[Steve]

I go to the stadium to football games as well as things like the food fight etc. I also go to conventions and trade shows around the country (I'm in the wire business, we make up reasons to have trade shows) I'm just saying if you use it creatively (think outside the box if you will)
it has as much if not more usable space as most of the spaces in comparable cities, but all of the spaces are more high end. I would rather come to a space like that than say the Kansas city convention center.

Based on your background can you imagine hosting a convention requiring 150k square feet on a football field, amphitheater, restaurant, and lounge, none of which are actually connected (save for the amphitheater and football field)?

[thelakelander]

It won't happen. Instead, you'd take your convention to a larger cohesive facility attached to a decent-sized hotel with things to do around it, like the Ocean Center in Daytona.

[Bill Hoff]

"The future of ball parks"

http://jacksonville.com/sports/2017-03-29/braves-new-ballpark-could-be-game-changer-industry

What Khan has proposed is sort of retrofitting the area around the stadium to include the items/ideas listed in the article. If he could start from scratch, I suspect it'd be similar to the Atlanta Braves concept.

[fieldafm]

Yes, more and more sports franchises are getting into the real estate development business:

http://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-milwaukee-bucks-enter-the-placemaking-business

[BridgeTroll]

The Packers paid a million dollars in property taxes last year...

http://www.packersnews.com/story/news/2017/03/17/packers-property-taxes-fall-during-construction/99132744/

[Kerry]

Yes, more and more sports franchises are getting into the real estate development business:

http://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-milwaukee-bucks-enter-the-placemaking-business

...but are any of them successful?  The Mavericks ownership developed Victory Park in Dallas and the reviews have been far less than stellar.

[Steve]

Yes, more and more sports franchises are getting into the real estate development business:

http://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-milwaukee-bucks-enter-the-placemaking-business

...but are any of them successful?  The Mavericks ownership developed Victory Park in Dallas and the reviews have been far less than stellar.

Patriot Place in New England has been remarkably succesful. There are other factors at play helping it out, but successful nonetheless.

[fieldafm]

Yes, more and more sports franchises are getting into the real estate development business:

http://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-milwaukee-bucks-enter-the-placemaking-business

...but are any of them successful?  The Mavericks ownership developed Victory Park in Dallas and the reviews have been far less than stellar.

Depends on the approach.

Ballpark Village in St Louis could be considered a 'success' and phase 2 is underway now. Ballpark Village has the advantage of being close to Busch Stadium (which between the Cardinals and Scottrade Center where the Blues play in nearby, is used far more often then Everbank Field) and within walking distance of several hotels and a couple of corporate headquarters (Hardees, Purina).

http://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-milwaukee-bucks-enter-the-placemaking-business/page/2

China Basin, the development arm of the San Francisco Giants, has partnered with other development companies to spur construction of mixed use buildings in Mission Bay. On property next to the ballpark, they've created a pretty cool pop-up shipping container village which just re-opened for the season this week. That particular site will get redeveloped eventually, so its worth noting that they are taking a very incremental approach. The properties are also in a prime location in a neighborhood where real estate development is white hot.

http://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-milwaukee-bucks-enter-the-placemaking-business/page/2


A cautionary tale for Jacksonville, where the Shipyards property has already gone through three failed iterations/developers, would be American Dream Meadowlands.. the perpetually stalled project next to MetLife Stadium (also on its third developer).

[pierre]

Depends on the approach.

Ballpark Village in St Louis could be considered a 'success' and phase 2 is underway now. Ballpark Village has the advantage of being close to Busch Stadium (which between the Cardinals and Scottrade Center where the Blues play in nearby, is used far more often then Everbank Field) and within walking distance of several hotels and a couple of corporate headquarters (Hardees, Purina).

Was going to say this.

I spend time in St Louis for work. The Ballpark Village near Busch Stadium seems to do well.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Ballpark Village in St Louis could be considered a 'success' and phase 2 is underway now. Ballpark Village has the advantage of being close to Busch Stadium (which between the Cardinals and Scottrade Center where the Blues play in nearby, is used far more often then Everbank Field) and within walking distance of several hotels and a couple of corporate headquarters (Hardees, Purina).

I'd just like to namedrop a little bit right here....  Sound familiar?

DEC. 17, 2000

• "Our No. 1 objective is for this to be developed in a way that supports downtown St. Louis and enhances the experience our fans have when they come to the new ballpark."— then-Cardinals President Mark Lamping.

That said, I since the Meadowlands was mentioned, I looked and can't seem to find any of Lamping's fingerprints on the American Dream Meadowlands issue.  So another win.

[JaxJersey-licious]

Let's try not to put the American Dream debacle in an apples to apples comparison of surrounding development of sports arenas. American Dream is (currently) being undertaken by the developers of Mall Of America and the West Edmonton Mall and although it's in the Meadowlands Sports Complex property there is no direct involvement in the mall's development by the ownership of the Giants, Jets, the horse track, or former teams that played in the now torn down Izod Center.

[RatTownRyan]

FLORIDA POLITICS
House approves crackdown on public investment in pro sports stadiums


MICHAEL MOLINE
6 hours ago
The Florida House approved legislation on an 82-33 vote Thursday that would ban professional sports teams from building or refurbishing stadiums on public land.

CS/HB 77, by Bryan Avila, would forbid the construction, renovation, or improvement on any pro facility "on public land leased from the state or a political subdivision thereof."

Cities and counties could sell public land to teams only at fair market value. Teams would have to assume public debt undertaken for their facilities if they move away.

Coconut Creek Democrat Kristin Jacobs said she liked the idea but warned of unintended consequences. She pointed to negotiations with a new owner of the Florida Panther that required Broward County to upgrade the scoreboard, club room, and other amenities at the BB&T Center.

"This bill would preclude that investment by Broward County. And if, in fact, the county could not go forward and make these investments to attract a new owner, guess what? You'd have no team. You'd have a big, hulking, empty facility that costs the taxpayers."

Avila maintained that anyone with enough money to buy a professional sports franchise can afford any improvements.

"I ask that you think about taxpayers. I ask that you think about protecting public dollars. And I ask that you do away with this practice of giving away our taxpayers' moneys and giving away publicly owned land to businesses that have more than enough capital to buy the land, purchase the materials for the stadium, to construct the stadium, and be able to be profitable without any sort of government incentive."

[KenFSU]

^I can't see this passing in the state Senate, or getting signed off on by the governor. As it's written, it's a pretty stupid bill. It literally makes no sense. It's way too broad, treating every situation the same, and treating billionaire NFL owners the same as struggling minor league sports owners. By my reading of the bill, the Shipyards wouldn't fall into the "facility" category. However, the renovations at the stadium and public/private partnership on Daily's Place would not have been possible. In order for the Jaguars to contribute toward any stadium construction, we'd have to sell them the land under the stadium at fair market value. Despite the fact that our stadium predates the Jaguars by a legitimate SEVENTY YEARS.