Strategic Defunding of Charter Schools

[Adam White]

A better question should be.... What about all those children whose chance at education was shot because they attended a bad public school?

Why make the distinction? Surely we can all agree that bad schools are bad. We all want our kids to recieve the best possible education in the best possible environment.

I didnt... initially

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes here. I think the solution is to make public schools the priority and work to fix those (and, if necessary, build new public schools to replace 'failing' ones) rather than create a parallel quasi-public school system that lacks the accountability of public schools.

[Adam White]

A better question should be.... What about all those children whose chance at education was shot because they attended a bad public school?

Why make the distinction? Surely we can all agree that bad schools are bad. We all want our kids to recieve the best possible education in the best possible environment.

Except that--as already noted--the public schools at least have the tools available for motivated students that put in the time and effort to get an education.

With Charters, those tools often aren't even there.

Of course with the seepage of money from a school district into private hands, those tools will eventually erode away as well.

But thats kind of the point isn't it?

Charter Schools were driven from their inception as a way to avoid Darwin and minorities.

Some genuinely amazing schools have come out of the laboratory, obviously.

But why should those private institutions be funded with tax payer money?  Why shouldn't they have the same process as a traditional private school?

See my response above!

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

A better question should be.... What about all those children whose chance at education was shot because they attended a bad public school?

Why make the distinction? Surely we can all agree that bad schools are bad. We all want our kids to recieve the best possible education in the best possible environment.

I didnt... initially

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes here. I think the solution is to make public schools the priority and work to fix those (and, if necessary, build new public schools to replace 'failing' ones) rather than create a parallel quasi-public school system that lack the accountability of public schools.

How does using resources to build another school fix a failing one?

[Adam White]

A better question should be.... What about all those children whose chance at education was shot because they attended a bad public school?

Why make the distinction? Surely we can all agree that bad schools are bad. We all want our kids to recieve the best possible education in the best possible environment.

I didnt... initially

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes here. I think the solution is to make public schools the priority and work to fix those (and, if necessary, build new public schools to replace 'failing' ones) rather than create a parallel quasi-public school system that lack the accountability of public schools.

How does using resources to build another school fix a failing one?

Well, it worked in the case of the Hackney Downs School and Mossbourne Academy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossbourne_Community_Academy

Edit: it wasn't simply about a new building, though.


It really should be more about changes in approach, etc - but building newer, better schools can help. We obviously want our kids to be able to learn in the best possible environment.

Simply building a new school won't help on its own - but if an older school was overcrowded or was no longer fit for purpose, it would make sense to replace it with a newer, better building.

[BridgeTroll]

A better question should be.... What about all those children whose chance at education was shot because they attended a bad public school?

Why make the distinction? Surely we can all agree that bad schools are bad. We all want our kids to recieve the best possible education in the best possible environment.

I didnt... initially

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes here. I think the solution is to make public schools the priority and work to fix those (and, if necessary, build new public schools to replace 'failing' ones) rather than create a parallel quasi-public school system that lacks the accountability of public schools.

What you suggest and others suggest is of course the long term goal isn't it?  The problem is the here and now.  When YOUR child is going to School X with failing grades and violence... you need a solution NOW.  We had two choices... send child to school x or move.  Some choice eh?  I had the ability (barely) to afford a parochial school.  Those that couldn't ... had no choice... they were forced to send their children to that perennial failing school.

So the charter offers a choice... it may be good... it may be bad... but the parents at least have options.

[Adam White]

A better question should be.... What about all those children whose chance at education was shot because they attended a bad public school?

Why make the distinction? Surely we can all agree that bad schools are bad. We all want our kids to recieve the best possible education in the best possible environment.

I didnt... initially

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes here. I think the solution is to make public schools the priority and work to fix those (and, if necessary, build new public schools to replace 'failing' ones) rather than create a parallel quasi-public school system that lacks the accountability of public schools.

What you suggest and others suggest is of course the long term goal isn't it?  The problem is the here and now.  When YOUR child is going to School X with failing grades and violence... you need a solution NOW.  We had two choices... send child to school x or move.  Some choice eh?  I had the ability (barely) to afford a parochial school.  Those that couldn't ... had no choice... they were forced to send their children to that perennial failing school.

So the charter offers a choice... it may be good... it may be bad... but the parents at least have options.

Of course it's a long-term goal, though I think it needn't be all that long. But it needs to be a goal - and right now, there seems to be no appetite for it. Because it costs money. Because people don't like to pay taxes, etc.

I think our priorities are out of whack, but that's just me.

[BridgeTroll]

A better question should be.... What about all those children whose chance at education was shot because they attended a bad public school?

Why make the distinction? Surely we can all agree that bad schools are bad. We all want our kids to recieve the best possible education in the best possible environment.

I didnt... initially

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes here. I think the solution is to make public schools the priority and work to fix those (and, if necessary, build new public schools to replace 'failing' ones) rather than create a parallel quasi-public school system that lacks the accountability of public schools.

What you suggest and others suggest is of course the long term goal isn't it?  The problem is the here and now.  When YOUR child is going to School X with failing grades and violence... you need a solution NOW.  We had two choices... send child to school x or move.  Some choice eh?  I had the ability (barely) to afford a parochial school.  Those that couldn't ... had no choice... they were forced to send their children to that perennial failing school.

So the charter offers a choice... it may be good... it may be bad... but the parents at least have options.

Of course it's a long-term goal, though I think it needn't be all that long. But it needs to be a goal - and right now, there seems to be no appetite for it. Because it costs money. Because people don't like to pay taxes, etc.

I think our priorities are out of whack, but that's just me.

So what is your solution to "right now"?  Your son is going to failing school x next month.  What does Adam do?

[Tacachale]

Most private schools are out of reach for wide swaths of the populace. Functionally, they're not better for the school district than charter schools are; they take students (often high performers) and potential resources of of the district. Even public magnet programs have their drawbacks - they also take high performing students and potential resources out of neighborhood schools.

Truly fixing the school district means fixing poverty, segregation, sprawl, inequality, white flight, institutional issues arising from a massive school district, historical funding problems, and various cultural features. That's not an easy fix. You could get rid of all charter schools and not be any closer to fixing the root of the problem.

[BridgeTroll]

It is not an easy fix... nor does it address the parents dilemma... NOW.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

So what is your solution to "right now"?  Your son is going to failing school x next month.  What does Adam do?

But it begs the question that I've asked myself BT - Does a failing school mean that my child fails to learn?  I say no.  He was part of the original class at Ribault MS used to help bring their overall grades up.  His education didn't suffer because it was a 'failing' school. 

I'd even suggest that he learned more, not just school-wise, from going there and it will serve to help him later in life.

And don't get me wrong, the reputation of the school and the neighborhood around it caused some worry initially, but I figured that if he could make it through the first month without getting his ass kicked, then he would be fine.  It's diversity training and I believe those 3 years will only help enable him to handle most anything put in front of him. 

[Adam White]

So what is your solution to "right now"?  Your son is going to failing school x next month.  What does Adam do?

That's a great question, BT. And to be honest, I don't know.

My kid is three and he will be entering primary school next September (reception - the English equivalent of kindergarten). I have to list my five top choices of schools that we can attend (we have to live in the catchment area for the schools). He will then go to the school that he is assigned to - even if it isn't on my list of five.

I suppose my option if he got into a 'bad' school would be home schooling, though I am not sure we can afford that. I also couldn't afford a private school, though I am opposed to private education. And I would never send him to a CoE or RC school (not that we could necessarily get a place in one of those).

I can only guess what I will do or would do. I wish I could give you a solid answer, but I think it would be dishonest of me.

[BridgeTroll]

So what is your solution to "right now"?  Your son is going to failing school x next month.  What does Adam do?

But it begs the question that I've asked myself BT - Does a failing school mean that my child fails to learn?  I say no.  He was part of the original class at Ribault MS used to help bring their overall grades up.  His education didn't suffer because it was a 'failing' school. 

I'd even suggest that he learned more, not just school-wise, from going there and it will serve to help him later in life.

And don't get me wrong, the reputation of the school and the neighborhood around it caused some worry initially, but I figured that if he could make it through the first month without getting his ass kicked, then he would be fine.  It's diversity training and I believe those 3 years will only help enable him to handle most anything put in front of him. 

We all ask ourselves those questions don't we?  We all have decisions to make... what is best for my child?  Apparently there is an entire legion of folks who do not want choices in education.  We took a second, third, and forth look at our budget... cut this... adjusted that... went without etc to go to a parochial school.  Most parochial schools require parental participation...

[BridgeTroll]

So what is your solution to "right now"?  Your son is going to failing school x next month.  What does Adam do?

That's a great question, BT. And to be honest, I don't know.

My kid is three and he will be entering primary school next September (reception - the English equivalent of kindergarten). I have to list my five top choices of schools that we can attend (we have to live in the catchment area for the schools). He will then go to the school that he is assigned to - even if it isn't on my list of five.

I suppose my option if he got into a 'bad' school would be home schooling, though I am not sure we can afford that. I also couldn't afford a private school, though I am opposed to private education. And I would never send him to a CoE or RC school (not that we could necessarily get a place in one of those).

I can only guess what I will do or would do. I wish I could give you a solid answer, but I think it would be dishonest of me.

Exactly where I was at a long time ago... never really thought about it.  Until the day came when we were assigned school x... when we thought we were going to A,B, or C.

[Adam White]

So what is your solution to "right now"?  Your son is going to failing school x next month.  What does Adam do?

That's a great question, BT. And to be honest, I don't know.

My kid is three and he will be entering primary school next September (reception - the English equivalent of kindergarten). I have to list my five top choices of schools that we can attend (we have to live in the catchment area for the schools). He will then go to the school that he is assigned to - even if it isn't on my list of five.

I suppose my option if he got into a 'bad' school would be home schooling, though I am not sure we can afford that. I also couldn't afford a private school, though I am opposed to private education. And I would never send him to a CoE or RC school (not that we could necessarily get a place in one of those).

I can only guess what I will do or would do. I wish I could give you a solid answer, but I think it would be dishonest of me.

Exactly where I was at a long time ago... never really thought about it.  Until the day came when we were assigned school x... when we thought we were going to A,B, or C.

I'll be honest with you - this sort of thing worries me. But then again, when we were looking for a nursery, we couldn't get into the 'good' ones in our area (due to a baby boom we were part of). We ended up having to 'settle' for the Council-run one in a less salubrious area of the borough. It ended up being brilliant - he loved it and all my concerns appear to have been unfounded.

But it could've been worse, of course. I guess you never know.

[Adam White]

Truly fixing the school district means fixing poverty, segregation, sprawl, inequality, white flight, institutional issues arising from a massive school district, historical funding problems, and various cultural features. That's not an easy fix. You could get rid of all charter schools and not be any closer to fixing the root of the problem.

I tried responding to this once and it didn't take - so apologies if it posts twice.

Whilst I agree that these conditions are underlying causes, I don't think they necessarily need to be addressed before we can fix our schools. Charter and private schools are able to succeed in spite of these conditions. These problems exist the world over, in varying degrees, yet people deal with it.

Perhaps we can learn from charter schools and apply those lessons to public schools. I honestly believe we can go a long way towards sorting out the issues with our public schools if we really wanted to.