5 Ideas to Revitalize the Jacksonville Landing

[JimInJax]

The food court idea is a no brainer. A restaurant with some event space would do well with the views and business community of DT.

I love the idea of creating cultural attractions in the Landing. Any museums that could move to the Landing or potential museums that have been discussed for Jax other than the USS Adams?

Ok, so assuming you are correct, the only way I can think of to "revitalize" The Landing would be to level it and start over. The current configuration pretty much doesn't allow for anything other than what it is now - and that isn't working.

To The Lakelander's point it may just have to sit there, slowing dying for another 5 years. But once the USS Adams shows up, there has to be a Shipyards to put it at. I think that was part of the agreement to obtain the vessel, but I could be wrong. Isn't that supposed to be happening in the near future - like at the end of last year? I think the Adams isn't going to get us a whole bunch myself. Having lived in Charleston, and seeing the Yorktown all the time, I never got the impression that it drew that many people - and that was an aircraft carrier with a museum of other cool items around it. I went once, and it was a neat addition to the skyline, but I know it cost a fortune to maintain and I don't believe that it was breaking even. Again, I could be wrong.

Jim

[Tacachale]

^A food hall is probably closer to an indoor public market than a traditional mall food court. Here's a few images of Milwaukee's public market:









http://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-jul-these-are-the-newest-food-halls-you-need-to-visit

https://www.zagat.com/b/11-must-visit-food-halls-across-the-u.s#1

In my experience, the difference between "Food Halls" and "Food Courts" is twofold: (1): Food Halls have different, trendier types of stalls than old school food courts, and (2): people actually go to them.

[thelakelander]

Ok, so assuming you are correct, the only way I can think of to "revitalize" The Landing would be to level it and start over. The current configuration pretty much doesn't allow for anything other than what it is now - and that isn't working.

I present Bayside Marketplace:









Bayside, the Landing's sibling in downtown Miami is over 90% occupied. It turns its back to downtown. Structurally, it's basically the same thing. Why is it successful and the Landing is not?

It's because the real problem isn't the footprint. The real issues are Jax's downtown market, politics and possibly retail strategy.

As for configuration, non-load bearing walls, barriers, etc. can be modified to resolve many issues some tend to think can only be resolved by complete demo and millions in public subsidies. There are plans to expand Bayside and better integrate it into downtown Miami. However, they're still keeping the retail buildings that face the bay as opposed to downtown.

To The Lakelander's point it may just have to sit there, slowing dying for another 5 years. But once the USS Adams shows up, there has to be a Shipyards to put it at. I think that was part of the agreement to obtain the vessel, but I could be wrong.

This is incorrect. The Shipyards does not have to be developed to put a rusting vessel at one of its piers.

[FlaBoy]

^ At this point, create a park at the Shipyards with the USS Adams and I think that will be the best thing we will be able to do for awhile.

Also, it is wild but Gainesville now has a completely urban Target in their midtown area. Wish we could have this somewhere in our core, never mind the Landing:

http://www.gainesville.com/news/20160712/cvs-squeezing-into-target-express-at-standard

[Kerry]

If by 'Food Hall' you mean something like Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia or even Pike Place Market in Seattle then by all means - YES.  But that would require gutting the entire structure and evicting every tenant.  I don't see the current ownership doing that.

[UNFurbanist]

The Jacksonville Landing is dead........

No way to put racing stripes on the broken down bus, no way to fix her. Sleiman has tried, the man who has MANY successful real estate strip malls cannot find a way to fix this broken down retail center. So stop trying to resusitate the old broad, let her die, and rebuild her as residential.

Maybe you missed it, had your head buried in the sand watching Bernillary on TV, http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/07/12/breaking-jacksonville-apartment-sale-breaks-local.html The Strand just sold for a record 65 million, for apartments in Jax. This was.....ahem, downtown, across the river from the dead Landing.

Mayor Curry, pull the plug on The Jacksonville Landing and rebuild it as a place for people to live, have their boats and build a solid base from the river, the source of Jacksonville's life, toward places like Hemming Plaza.

There are plenty of spaces for barnyard events for Fl/Ga, including the Old Shipyards, and Lake is right, we are probably a good 10 years from seeing it come to fruition. So why try and fix something that cannot be fixed, The Jacksonville Landing has been dying for 25 years, slowly each year. Put the old girl out of her misery.

Doing residential ONLY would be a huge mistake and wasted opportunity. There is no demonstrated market for either For Sale or rental units at the price level required to build a NEW high rise residential, so you are talking about something on scale of the Brooklyn projects.  The Strand was built at 10 year ago prices and given the type of construction (high-rise) it should come as no surprise that it's per unit price is at the very top.

Given the current market for office and residential DT currently, renovation is the only option that is viable.       

Yeah, I would love to see a huge project that builds a beautiful new attraction downtown but at this point do I think it is feasible? No. Slieman is a businessman who wants to make money without investing anything. That's his game so he wants COJ to pay for his new money making venture. Is that going to happen? No. COJ is broke. So our best option is to convince Slieman of a cheaper investment that can still turn the Landing around and I think what Lake proposes can do that if done correctly. BTW, has anyone talked to Slieman directly about this option? I feel like TransForm Jax has proven themselves with the Landing so far so maybe he would listen to a well put together proposal for a say $2 million reinvestment strategy.

[Tacachale]

If by 'Food Hall' you mean something like Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia or even Pike Place Market in Seattle then by all means - YES.  But that would require gutting the entire structure and evicting every tenant.  I don't see the current ownership doing that.

I don't see the current owner doing much either, but it really wouldn't take that much to convert some of the various empty or struggling retail spots to another use. Hell, they probably could do it in the current food court, which would bring some of the life Lake's talking about to that prime location.

[thelakelander]

If by 'Food Hall' you mean something like Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia or even Pike Place Market in Seattle then by all means - YES.  But that would require gutting the entire structure and evicting every tenant.  I don't see the current ownership doing that.

I'm not sure Jax could support something the size of Reading Terminal Market or Pike Place. I doubt you could fill up 125,000 square feet of retail space with that one concept. However, there's no reason something smaller can't work without kicking all tenants out. Flagship Commons in Omaha's Westroads Mall is an example of this:

http://www.ggp.com/content/corporate/data/siteleaseplans/WESTROADS%20MALL-3958-LP3.pdf

[exnewsman]

IMO - here are the main problems with The Landing:

1. Limited onsite parking if you want to go by car.
2. Vagrants / crime - we used to go by boat and sometimes spend the night. Now It doesn't feel safe anymore. Maybe add a JSO substation?
3. Lack of dock space for boats. If something fun is happening, it fills up fast and you can't get in. Add some piers and floating docks. Add power for the boats and allow people to stay up to 72 hours like Metro Park Marina

At this point, it's so broken I think many people have just given up and are waiting for The Shipyards to replace The Landing and do it right. Once The Shipyards open The Landing is doomed anyway. This city does a terrible job of leveraging the waterfront. The river is the lifeblood of this city, and COJ planners all but ignore it.

No parking? There are five parking garages within two blocks, including one directly across the street. Then there's always the Skyway (free).

[Kerry]

IMO - here are the main problems with The Landing:

1. Limited onsite parking if you want to go by car.
2. Vagrants / crime - we used to go by boat and sometimes spend the night. Now It doesn't feel safe anymore. Maybe add a JSO substation?
3. Lack of dock space for boats. If something fun is happening, it fills up fast and you can't get in. Add some piers and floating docks. Add power for the boats and allow people to stay up to 72 hours like Metro Park Marina

At this point, it's so broken I think many people have just given up and are waiting for The Shipyards to replace The Landing and do it right. Once The Shipyards open The Landing is doomed anyway. This city does a terrible job of leveraging the waterfront. The river is the lifeblood of this city, and COJ planners all but ignore it.

No parking? There are five parking garages within two blocks, including one directly across the street. Then there's always the Skyway (free).

Not to mention about 50 square blocks of free on-street parking after 6PM and on weekends.

[thelakelander]

Dedicated parking is an issue for chains. However, the parking situation could possibly be more flexible with a different mixed-use development strategy.

[Kerry]

Dedicated parking is an issue for chains. However, the parking situation could possibly be more flexible with a different mixed-use development strategy.

I think this is a serious failure on the City's part though.  They claim to want an urban downtown and downtown adjacent neighborhoods, but then shoot themselves in the foot by approving half-ass (can I use that word here) suburban style developments like the Gate gas station in Brooklyn.  We can't be both at the same time - we either need walkable urbanism or drivable sub-urbanism.  There is no such thing as walkable suburbia or drivable urban but is what we keep getting from the City.  Every chain in America has urban stores with no dedicated parking, but they are instead surrounded by residential developments and mass transit in a walkable urban environment.

[Tacachale]

Dedicated parking for the Landing has been an issue for a long time. Having that terrible surface lot next door is also half-baked. It's essentially riverfront property that's being used to provide a small but inadequate amount of parking. One of the worst projects ever conceived in Jacksonville was that Parador garage, which is a block from the Landing and doesn't provide the necessary parking. Fixing that will be a long-term issue, if it ever gets done.

[FRANTZ46]

You guys need to stop bashing Downtown and the landing. All those other vibrant cities you guys are comparing with Jacksonville have better vibes because people are living and working in those cities. But technically they are not nicer than JAX, they don't have our ST JOHN RIVER running thru their cities. In Jacksonville people drive to downtown to work and drive back to their homes in the suburbs or by the beaches lol!! I Personally don't see nothing wrong with the landing maybe just needs some repairs and some fresh new business. Downtown is gorgeous; yes it can be better, but only when you people decide to live, eat, play; or taking parts of those events. Riverside and Brooklyn it's a good start but Downtown needs more. Also stop complaining about parking there are plenty all over the streets. I usually go at night and never have any problems to park. I can tell you Downtown is very safe compare to years ago. Thanks to JSO they are doing a good job to keep the city and downtown safe. The way I see it only You people can save downtown. Also the city needs to do a better job to bring more jobs and business to downtown (China, Canada, and some Europeans countries can help) its just there are not enough tourist and people living there and not enough business, apartments bars and restaurants and things to do. Man! the other day I took a walk by the Jaguar Stadium at the metropolitan stadium OH MY GOD WHAT A WASTE!  So much potential.

Also that shipyard crap, we can forget about it; because its not going to happen.

[FRANTZ46]

You guys need to stop bashing Downtown and the landing. All those other vibrant cities you guys are comparing with Jacksonville have better vibes because people are living and working in those cities. But technically they are not nicer than JAX, they don't have our ST JOHN RIVER running thru their cities. In Jacksonville people drive to downtown to work and drive back to their homes in the suburbs or by the beaches lol!! I Personally don't see nothing wrong with the landing maybe just needs some repairs and some fresh new business. Downtown is gorgeous; yes it can be better, but only when you people decide to live, eat, play; or taking parts of those events. Riverside and Brooklyn it's a good start but Downtown needs more. Also stop complaining about parking there are plenty all over the streets. I usually go at night and never have any problems to park. I can tell you Downtown is very safe compare to years ago. Thanks to JSO they are doing a good job to keep the city and downtown safe. The way I see it only You people can save downtown. Also the city needs to do a better job to bring more jobs and business to downtown (China, Canada, and some Europeans countries can help) its just there are not enough tourist and people living there and not enough business, apartments bars and restaurants and things to do. Man! the other day I took a walk by the Jaguar Stadium at the metro park  OH MY GOD WHAT A WASTE!  So much potential.

Also that shipyard crap, we can forget about it; because its not going to happen.