More than 50 shot to death, multiple injuries in Orlando Mass Shooting at Downtown Gay Bar

[Adam White]

They may not, but unfortunately many of the more hardcore ones do (and actually act upon it harshly). And I get out plenty. Any other snide remarks??

And no one bothers to paint all christians or hindus with the same brush just because a very small number commit atrocities in the name of their faith. But bigots like you are the first to start in on that sort of thing when a muslim is involved.

Yet this very board bashes Christians as a whole every other post. Its just when someone brings up a pet religion to the left its a "phobe" meltdown tantrum like you're having now. Funny how that happens isn't it.

And try to refrain from name calling, pal just because my post got your poopie diapers in a bunch. You don't know anything about me. Grow up & have a civil discussion or just don't reply.

I can't vouch for what the "board" does - but that's a pretty weak argument. "People bash christianity, so it's okay to bash islam".

If you don't want me to call you a bigot, don't make bigoted comments. Simples.

[fsquid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ

[Gunnar]

They may not, but unfortunately many of the more hardcore ones do (and actually act upon it harshly). And I get out plenty. Any other snide remarks??

And no one bothers to paint all christians or hindus with the same brush just because a very small number commit atrocities in the name of their faith. But bigots like you are the first to start in on that sort of thing when a muslim is involved.

Yet this very board bashes Christians as a whole every other post. Its just when someone brings up a pet religion to the left its a "phobe" meltdown tantrum like you're having now. Funny how that happens isn't it.

And try to refrain from name calling, pal just because my post got your poopie diapers in a bunch. You don't know anything about me. Grow up & have a civil discussion or just don't reply.

I can't vouch for what the "board" does - but that's a pretty weak argument. "People bash christianity, so it's okay to bash islam".

If you don't want me to call you a bigot, don't make bigoted comments. Simples.

Don't you think you've been enough of a d**k today ?

[Adam White]

http://www.newstatesman.com/mehdi-hasan/2013/05/muslim-i-struggle-idea-homosexuality-i-oppose-homophobia

http://www.economist.com/node/21546002



Interesting articles. Both from reputable sources - and in the interest of balance, one is a centre-left publication (The New Statesman), the other centre-right (The Economist).

I am no Islamic scholar - but if I were looking for an explanation of why many Muslims have issues with homosexuality, I'd look to Marx and the concepts of base and superstructure.

[Adam White]

They may not, but unfortunately many of the more hardcore ones do (and actually act upon it harshly). And I get out plenty. Any other snide remarks??

And no one bothers to paint all christians or hindus with the same brush just because a very small number commit atrocities in the name of their faith. But bigots like you are the first to start in on that sort of thing when a muslim is involved.

Yet this very board bashes Christians as a whole every other post. Its just when someone brings up a pet religion to the left its a "phobe" meltdown tantrum like you're having now. Funny how that happens isn't it.

And try to refrain from name calling, pal just because my post got your poopie diapers in a bunch. You don't know anything about me. Grow up & have a civil discussion or just don't reply.

I can't vouch for what the "board" does - but that's a pretty weak argument. "People bash christianity, so it's okay to bash islam".

If you don't want me to call you a bigot, don't make bigoted comments. Simples.

Don't you think you've been enough of a d**k today ?

I don't know... there are a couple of hours left.

I can see you guys on the right, circling the wagons. I called the guy a bigot. Once.

I did also tell a habitual troll that I preferred when he was taking a break from the forum. Which is true. So, if that counts, I've been a dick twice.

What's your excuse?

[peestandingup]

And its weird to claim that the 'board' is christian phobic. 

We are actually the only ongoing media presence every year at the Pastor's conference, and several of us spend a lot of time speaking up for Christian organizations and events on a constant basis.

Never said it was. Just that they do get vilified quite a bit on here & no one says a thing. Say something bad about any other religious extremists (who actually do act on it in numbers) & its "OMG, are you serious? I can't even. Bigot!".

I know you do good work with those organizations, Stephen. No one's challenging that.

[Adam White]

And its weird to claim that the 'board' is christian phobic. 

We are actually the only ongoing media presence every year at the Pastor's conference, and several of us spend a lot of time speaking up for Christian organizations and events on a constant basis.

Never said it was. Just that they do get vilified quite a bit on here & no one says a thing. Say something bad about any other religious extremists (who actually do act on it in numbers) & its "OMG, are you serious? I can't even. Bigot!".

I know you do good work with those organizations, Stephen. No one's challenging that.

It might be because the comments you make are about "Islam" not "Islamic extremism". You don't distinguish.

I don't do that about any religion - and I dislike them all equally. But I appreciate that the majority of people who follow religions are decent people, even if they have some pretty f-ed up views on things.

[fsquid]

so no 60 minutes tonight?

[spuwho]

Equality Florida is managing a GoFundMe account for the victims.

https://www.gofundme.com/PulseVictimsFund

The goal is $1M. They are up to $879k at this posting.

Consider helping those or their families who have been impacted by the horrific event.

[fsquid]

Very cool.  I donated blood.  Islamic terrorists should not win

[ronchamblin]

These shootings ... tragic for those killed, but more so for those left behind, as they must endure years of suffering ... should be quite interesting to those of us only remotely affected.  Profound they are.  So one wonders. 

Are they increasing in frequency?  If so ... and I think they are ... why?  I have not researched, but I suspect that they are increasing at a rate exceeding a normal shootings per population ratio -- meaning of course, that other factors, increasing over time, are at play.  What are the factors?  I suspect certain societal components ... increasing in amplitude ... have been the cause of increased mass shootings.

What are some possible components affecting decisions to kill in mass? 

A continued ease of gun access perhaps? 

Is the recent run of mass shootings offering a kind of acceptance to the potential mass killer?  ... as if it's almost an approved societal solution or habit to kill in mass for whatever reason ... whether one is hopeless, angered, or desperate, acting on homophobic feelings, financially destroyed, shunned by a lover, retaliation for perceived peer, governmental, or societal abuse ... or acting out extreme delusional religious, factional, or racial perceptions?   

Recent mass killings seem less absurd or bizarre as compared to the era of the fifties or the sixties.  But isn't it true that mass killings to civilians occur all over the world ... especially wherever the U. S. meddles, or instigates conflicts ... wherever the U. S. tests its armaments and new killing technologies?   What is the significant difference between the killing of many thousands of civilians in the Middle East every few months, and the occasional mass killing of a dozen or so in the U. S.? 

I try to perceive the difference between an innocent dying in the U. S., and one dying in the MIddle East.  If we can agree that both the white and the brown civilians are innocent, surely we can agree that both die with same finality ... followed by the same tragic sufferings for their friends and relatives.  Both the brown and the white are uniquely human ... to the same degree ... and therefore each life is precious, whether killed by a U. S. bomb or drone in the Middle East, or shot by a deranged killer in a U. S. theatre, school, church, or night club.       

Many thousands of civilians ...women and children ... are killed in the Middle East and on U. S. soil as a result of the arrogant plutocratic elites behind U. S. efforts to control all entities so as to maximize profits throughout the world.  Whereas there is frequently non-existent or delayed medical help for the injured civilian in the Middle East, there is usually immediate medical help for those injured in U. S. mass attacks.       

Whereas the perpetrators of mass killings of civilians in the Middle East is a consequence of decisions by our U. S. plutocracy, as approved by a population held ignorant by some churches, a bought media, and clueless legislators, we might assume that the local mass shooter is simply mentally dysfunctional ... is only a nut ... or a gradation of same.  Certainly, a mental problem exists within the mind of the mass shooter ... a condition lying dormant ... emerging only as a profound and deadly action when circumstances culminate.

A type of insanity exists both within the minds of the local mass killers and the plutocratic elites who encourage foreign conflicts for profit ... both desensitized to human life ...  the latter believing that they alone are privileged to live and prosper in freedom to perpetuity at the expense of any poor victim remotely positioned to interfere with their ability to do so.  Killing humans has been dehumanized, portrayed as exciting events by movies and television, and TV news talking heads.

When faced with a problem or conflict, both the lone mass killer and the arrogant plutocrats choose not to negotiate or engage dialogue ... to think rationally so as to encourage stability and avoid tragedy ...  but both types attempt solving problems by the simple and quick method of using guns, dropping bombs, and sending missiles ... both acting out the coward's choice ... the path of impatience ... the path of stupidity.  Thus wars and conflicts are perpetuated over the decades.  And innocent civilians continue to be killed over there by bombs, missiles, and drones, and by lone killers with guns over here. 

If we must remove guns from all U. S. citizens so as to substantially decrease the mass killings over here, why don't we remove control of the guns, bombs, missiles, and drones from our military so as to substantially decrease the mass killings over there?  Eisenhower was right.  Chomsky is right.  Chris Hedges is right.  Eugene Debs was right.  Kennedy was right.  MLK and MX were right.

[Coolyfett]

People hate Muslims and Islamic people, but I feel no shame for this. Let them hate.

[peestandingup]

um.  do you have any idea what is happening in the world?  Uganda?  Russia?  Christian governments.  I know you to be a widely read person, but radical, queer killing christianity is quite alive and well in the world.  And even domestically a gay person is far more likely to be murdered by a christian than a muslim.

I do, but its not in nearly the same numbers. And two, you're mostly talking about some third world shitholes where this stuff flies. Christians have mostly moved past this in western civilization, whereas Islam in many respects are still stuck in their angsty teenage years (even in the first world). Don't believe me? Try going over to some of these places in Europe today & question it (or even break some of their laws) & see what happens. You'll likely get assaulted or worse. This isn't some Trump-esque hyperbole, its happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSbgxChQAhQ&t=8m0s

"But my friends aren't like that!" Well good. Your friends have a good head on their shoulders, are probably educated, etc. I'm not saying Islam is bad, just that there's a ton of bad eggs in it that doesn't mesh well with western civilization. They're not the majority, but they're def enough to cause problems.

You must not have been reading along during Ron Chamblin's 2 year long rant about believers....lol

Probably not, lol. Ron's a bit too long-winded for my tastes.

[Adam White]

um.  do you have any idea what is happening in the world?  Uganda?  Russia?  Christian governments.  I know you to be a widely read person, but radical, queer killing christianity is quite alive and well in the world.  And even domestically a gay person is far more likely to be murdered by a christian than a muslim.

I do, but its not in nearly the same numbers. And two, you're mostly talking about some third world shitholes where this stuff flies. Christians have mostly moved past this in western civilization, whereas Islam in many respects are still stuck in their angsty teenage years (even in the first world). Don't believe me? Try going over to some of these places in Europe today & question it (or even break some of their laws) & see what happens. You'll likely get assaulted or worse. This isn't some Trump-esque hyperbole, its happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSbgxChQAhQ&t=8m0s

"But my friends aren't like that!" Well good. Your friends have a good head on their shoulders, are probably educated, etc. I'm not saying Islam is bad, just that there's a ton of bad eggs in it that doesn't mesh well with western civilization. They're not the majority, but they're def enough to cause problems.

You posted a video of the (former) leader of the English Defence League (EDL) - a far-right neo-fascist group - driving through an asian neighbourhood in Luton (where he grew up and lives). Of course he's not welcome there. We demonstrated to keep him and his skinhead/football hooligan followers out of Waltham Forest, too. And by "we", I mean atheists, muslims, christians and jews.

I walked from Whitechapel tube station to Liverpool Street station on Saturday and wasn't swarmed by muslims looking to kill me because I am an infidel.

Tommy Robinson is a bigot - and although I don't approve of violence of any sort, I am not surprised he was punched.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Robinson_(activist)

[The_Choose_1]

People hate Muslims and Islamic people, but I feel no shame for this. Let them hate.

Why?