Dead Sea Scroll Suggests that the Bible may need to be Rewritten.

[stephendare]

Basically, this scroll, written some 50 years before the birth of Yeshua of Nazareth (Jesus) gives a similar account of a Jewish Messiah who rose from the dead after three days to deliver salvation to the Jews.

Except that the story (logically) isnt about Yeshua.  Its about a Jewish Prince named 'Simon" who led a revolt against Herod.

Interesting.   

This should shake a few monkeys out of the trees.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1032642/The-ancient-scripts-predate--rewrite--Bible.html

A fresh interpretation of a stone tablet dated to the decades before Jesus's birth could undermine some fundamentals of the Christian faith, experts claim.

The tablet, which is similar in style to the Dead Sea Scrolls, is said to predict that a messiah would rise from the dead within three days.

The partially-deciphered Ancient Hebrew text had seemed to contain a vision of the apocalypse as told by the Angel Gabriel.

A fragment of the Dead Sea Scrolls which set the word talking when they were discovered 60 years ago. The new text seems to imply the life and death of Jesus was predicted before his birth

But a leading scholar says it confirms his theory that some Jewish sects before Christ believed a messiah would save them  -  but not before he was killed and brought back to life after three days.

Israel Knohl, Professor of Biblical Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, says one line of the text tells the 'prince of princes' slain by the evil government, 'in three days you shall live'.

He suggests the story refers to the death of a Jewish prince called Simon who led a revolt against King Herod.

Daniel Boyarin, of the University of California at Berkeley, said that there was growing evidence suggesting that Jesus could be best understood through a close reading of the Jewish history of his day.

'Some Christians will find it shocking  -  a challenge to the uniqueness of their theology, while others will be comforted by the idea of it being a traditional part of Judaism,' he said.

But Christian scholars dispute any contention that the tablet, which is in a private collection, could dilute the significance of Jesus's resurrection.

Ben Witherington, of Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Kentucky, said: 'This stone certainly does not demonstrate that the Gospel passion stories are created on the basis of this stone text.'

[RiversideGator]

Not exactly a shocker.  The Old Testament predicted the arrival of Jesus also.

[RiversideGator]

I did read the story.  That was one Jewish scholar's interpretation.  Work on your reading comprehension, please.

Israel Knohl, Professor of Biblical Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, says one line of the text tells the 'prince of princes' slain by the evil government, 'in three days you shall live'.

He suggests the story refers to the death of a Jewish prince called Simon who led a revolt against King Herod.

[RiversideGator]

The point is this is one man's possibly biased opinion, Stephen.  Get it?

[Captain Zissou]

Too bad Jesus was ummm,Jewish, also.  I see nothing in the article that points to anything other than Jesus. Is it surprising that a Jewish scroll would be about a Jewish prophet?

[Joe]

Not being Christian, it don't really have a dog in this fight.

However, I read several articles on this interesting discovery when it hit the news yesterday, and none of them had the sensationalist tone or the obvious provocation of Stephen's posts.

Was there any reason on the planet for this thread, other than for Stephen to intentionally provoke Driven1 or Riversidegator? Co-foudner of Metrojacksonville or not, I smell a troll.

[downtownparks]

Not being Christian, it don't really have a dog in this fight.

However, I read several articles on this interesting discovery when it hit the news yesterday, and none of them had the sensationalist tone or the obvious provocation of Stephen's posts.

Was there any reason on the planet for this thread, other than for Stephen to intentionally provoke Driven1 or Riversidegator? Co-foudner of Metrojacksonville or not, I smell a troll.

Its not so much troll, as much as sensationalist and narcissistic. There is a pattern by some posters of titling threads in such a manner as to make the biggest splash possible and raise a few hackles, this allows them to then play the victim when the title or concept are challenged.

[Driven1]

Not being Christian, it don't really have a dog in this fight.

However, I read several articles on this interesting discovery when it hit the news yesterday, and none of them had the sensationalist tone or the obvious provocation of Stephen's posts.

Was there any reason on the planet for this thread, other than for Stephen to intentionally provoke Driven1 or Riversidegator? Co-founder of Metrojacksonville or not, I smell a troll.

thanks Joe!  you call it like everyone else sees it.  you managed somehow to be nice about it too.  kudos.

[Joe]

Well listen, I'm just a lurker who checks this site because I enjoy Urban Planning discussion. So there's  nothing I can do or say.

But damn ... you sir are one mean spirited troll.

You tell me to "smell dick"
You actually admit to starting this thread as a response to a prior thread argument
And you top it off with continuing to attack the people you are trying to troll !!

Talk about someone who knows that they will never be banned no matter what they say. Reminds me of that UrbanPlanet guy from Charlotte.

Anyway, back to lurking.

[Driven1]

btw Stephen...i did not hear from you...is your IM working?  you indicated interest in coming to our "Pride & Humility" Bible study.  and while you know everything about the Scriptures (your words, not mine), you may learn something else - like how to apply what you know.  IM or call me please.

[Clem1029]

Oh yeah, seen this one around lately...let's dissect this one in the bit, and in the process, we can help stephen with his reading comprehension skills...

A fresh interpretation of a stone tablet dated to the decades before Jesus's birth could undermine some fundamentals of the Christian faith, experts claim.

Bold claim in the lead. Now, an intelligent approach would support such a sweeping statement with actual evidence. Now where'd I put that actual evidence.

The tablet, which is similar in style to the Dead Sea Scrolls, is said to predict that a messiah would rise from the dead within three days.

The partially-deciphered Ancient Hebrew text had seemed to contain a vision of the apocalypse as told by the Angel Gabriel.

A fragment of the Dead Sea Scrolls which set the word talking when they were discovered 60 years ago. The new text seems to imply the life and death of Jesus was predicted before his
birth

Wait...you're telling me that there's actually writings that contain predictions about Jesus's life, death and resurrection? And they were written before he ever lived? Like, predictions from ancient times? Surely you jest.

Oh, wait...yeah. There's that Old Testament thing. Go figure.

But a leading scholar says it confirms his theory that some Jewish sects before Christ believed a messiah would save them  -  but not before he was killed and brought back to life after three days.

Israel Knohl, Professor of Biblical Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, says one line of the text tells the 'prince of princes' slain by the evil government, 'in three days you shall live'.

Makes perfect sense here...there's a boatload of messianic prophecies in the Bible, and plenty more in Jewish oral tradition (remember, literacy being an issue, most teachings were passed down verbally).

He suggests the story refers to the death of a Jewish prince called Simon who led a revolt against King Herod.

Ah, stephen's money quote in this article...except what? Here's where reading comprehension comes in. A non-scriptural writing attempts to identify an individual as matching the conditions in messianic prophecies, and attempts to say "this is the one." Where have I seen something like this before?

Oh, that's right...the latest Obama rally. 

In all seriousness, ALL this says is that a Jewish sect mis-identified someone as the Messiah. Let's say that these prophecies are tied to this Prince Simon. That's nice. Now, how about the stories about how he WAS killed by the authorities? How about the stories that he WAS raised from the dead? How about the stories that indicate he fulfilled EVERY SINGLE ONE of the messianic prophecies and not just select ones that a sect identified him with?

When you find that document, let me know.

Daniel Boyarin, of the University of California at Berkeley, said that there was growing evidence suggesting that Jesus could be best understood through a close reading of the Jewish history of his day.

It figures this part comes from someone at Berkeley (seriously...if you want to write a story on religion...WHY are you asking someone from Berkeley?). Only at Berekely will someone suggest something as a new idea that, oh, the Catholic Church has taught for 2000 years. OF COURSE the historical context matters. This is a freaking no brainer that only someone completely clueless in all things Christian would find as news.

But Christian scholars dispute any contention that the tablet, which is in a private collection, could dilute the significance of Jesus's resurrection.

Ben Witherington, of Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Kentucky, said: 'This stone certainly does not demonstrate that the Gospel passion stories are created on the basis of this stone text.'

OH, here we go...typical burying the lead. The suggestion we're obviously supposed to come to in this article is that somehow the Apostles "stole" the story, made it their own, and lied to everyone...stole the body, faked their way through their miracles, and had a suicide wish worse than ever seen in history. Got it.

This article is a perfect example of one of my favorite author's maxims - when you see a story about Christianity in the media, immediately subtract 50 IQ points.

[Driven1]

Well listen, I'm just a lurker who checks this site because I enjoy Urban Planning discussion. So there's  nothing I can do or say.

But damn ... you sir are one mean spirited troll.

You tell me to "smell dick"
You actually admit to starting this thread as a response to a prior thread argument
And you top it off with continuing to attack the people you are trying to troll !!

Talk about someone who knows that they will never be banned no matter what they say. Reminds me of that UrbanPlanet guy from Charlotte.

Anyway, back to lurking.

Joe,

Please don't let the one bad apple on here spoil it for the rest of us.  If enough people stand up to the bullying, he may one day get a suspension or something - just to slow him down or something?  He only has "poster" status on here - not even a moderator.  He is just like the rest of us. 

Seriously - please stay and either ignore him or post responsibly and continuously with facts.  It's a good site and good forum otherwise.

[thelakelander]

This thread is going nowhere.  Lets stick to issues that are revelent to Jacksonville.