What if Jacksonville suddenly woke up?

[thelakelander]

Btw, the Cookman Institute (where many of Jacksonville's early black students attended school) would later merge with another school to become Bethune Cookman College (now Bethune Cookman University) in Daytona Beach.



So the recent FSU Medical School we lost out on when they picked Daytona instead, is not the first school to do so.

[tufsu1]

tufsu!  read the whole article instead of just the blurb.

I did Stephen...and its very interesting....but blanket statements at the beginning turn some people off....and then they stop reading!

[second_pancake]

I did not know that Jacksonville was a city that "hated" itsellf...

This is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!

Do any of these people live in urban areas or do they all live in the suburbs...St. John's county perhaps?  Jacksonville will always appear to be a "nice place" when you shut yourself out from the reality of what it is and what it has the potential to become (good and bad). 

Some people live in the suburbs...others in established neighborhoods like Riverside and Springfield....I, for one, live downtown....and, yes, I agree there is much potential that has often been squandered....but its still a pretty nice place to live!

If you don't like it, you can always move!

I am moving...to TX.  Hopefully, when I come back to visit friends, I'll see Jacksonville making changes for the better instead of watching it continue to disenegrate around me.

[RiversideGator]

Are passages which include filthy language really necessary?

I know you hate Craig van Horne but this is really overboard:

Ray Mason would have an Institute where international finance and Arabic trade principles were taught, studied and debated. People would know who Raymond Mason was, and have no fucking clue who Craig Van Horn was.

[heights unknown]

I don't think Jacksonville is a city that hates itself, but I do think it is a city that is being held back by short sighted people and leaders now and in the past that have been in power, and Jax just has not realized it's full unlimited potential.

Jax, up until about 1960 was the City that could rather than the City that couldn't after 1960 and beyond.  Florida cities emulated Jax up until about that point; now it is the opposite, Jax doesn't have an identity or know its identity so it looks to other cities within Florida and around the nation to emulate.  We need to find out our own identity and realize our own self worth and who we are.

Until that happens, Jax will flounder, be uncertain and unsure of itself, thus holding its full potential back or even snuffing it out.

My opinion.

Heights Unknown

[thebrokenforum]

I do think it is a city that is being held back by short sighted people and leaders now and in the past that have been in power

Exactly!

Just curious...would starting a petition to get a maritime museum, an aquarium etc. etc. do any good if enough people were interested?

[rjp2008]

One thing I really notice about Jacksonville is that there is a strong core of people who really care about it's development and community. You don't see that in big metro areas, and that's really something.
There is a stronger identity of "we" here than in other areas and that's a huge plus.

[RiversideGator]

I am neither prissy, old nor a woman.  However, do you think that foul language (1) enhances your message and its general appeal or (2) takes away from it and causes many people to stop reading it and/or discount many of the valid points contained in it?  Just something to consider if you want to be taken seriously and make a difference.

[pwhitford]

Stephen - congratulations on a beautiful piece of work.  The scope of the article is epic and the information you provide could fill volumes, if followed up on â€" and it should be!  Great thought provoking article.  Now let’s see what kind of action it produces.

As a transplanted northerner (and from that modern day Gomorrah, New York City, to boot!) as well as one of those dreaded Orange Park-to-Downtown commuters, I think this town has incredible potential, so much so that I don't think most people can even begin to grasp the possibilities (most participants in this site excepted, of course).  And I am not even a little interested in moving back, but I can understand a native's  reaction to what he/she hears so often.

You want identity â€" look to your river; you want character, look to the incredible history of this place (the music, the artists, the personalities, the commerce (maritime and overland).  The frustration really comes from seeing how close this town is to being great, a true regional leader, and how often it is ruthlessly used by shameless and callow men for their own immediate gain.

I recommend this site to just about everyone I speak to, so keep up the good work.  And I believe the word is spreading and people are "waking up".  Witness: the effect you are having on the JTA and the very real possibility of commuter and light rail transit here in Jacksonville.  This wouldn’t even be on the table for discussion if the powers that be had been left to their own devices.  This was the result, at least in part, of the work you all do at this site.  Thanks, for this article and everything else.

[JaguarReign]

I think there were many good points in the article and I agree with a lot of it. Optimistically speaking, I think things are starting to look up. I remember 7 years ago when I last living in the area before I returned a few months ago, there was about half of the stuff to do than there is now. Plus, I think the jaguars have really done wonders for this city. Ever since the jags got here Jacksonville has grown as a city exponentially and given us a national identitiy. I think with them in tow, Jacksonville is turning around for the better. 

[Ocklawaha]

Certainly a "Smart City" would have gone with St. Elmo Acosta's plan to convert the FEC RY line from Southbank - (via Beach Blvd alignment) - Jax Beach - Mayport, into an electric interurban that would be with us today. Many other "Median Strip" car lines of Jacksonville Traction, not unlike those in New Orleans would have stayed in place as well...if we only had a brain.

On Mr. Phillip Randolph of Pullman fame, here are a couple of fill in bits that will let the rest of you in on my little secret:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William D'Alton Mann (1839-1920)

career as civil engineer cut short by Civil War

organized the Fifth Michigan Cavalry and later the Seventh

Commanded latter at Gettysberg

during war invented and poatented various improvements to soldiers' equipment and made a fdortune on their sale to federal government

after war settled in Mobile, Al

acquired and edited Mobile Register (newspaper) and took interest in politics

9 Jan 1872 received patent on sleeping car divided by transverse partitions into compartments
USPat 122,622: doors in side like in europe/ small toilet each compart, seats convertible to beds running crosswise to direction of travel

spent next 10 yrs intro to Continent Europe

8 Jan 1878 invented corridor car & car vestibule used on train built in England for use in Russia
USPat 198,991 / car had corridor length of car, communal restrooms, one sex each end
vestibules were closed -- forerunner of present-day (1957) compartment cars

On ret to US organized MBCC to build & operate cars

The Mann Boudoir Car Company was chartered in the state of New York 23 March 1883. It operated at a loss for its first 5 years.

cars used on Springfield line betw Boston & NY 1883

became popular w/ public but not RR because of limited capacity

The December 1888 issue of the Official Railway Guide startled the railroad world (and most of all George M. Pullman) with this announcement: "Union Palace Car Co.... will commence operating SLEEPING AND PARLOR CARS on about 15,000 miles of railroad in January 1889." Union had been incorporated 24 September 1888 in New Jersey by Job H. Jackson of Jackson & Sharp to secure control of the Mann Boudoir Car Company and the Woodruff Sleeping & Parlor Coach Company. The two companies operated a total of 34 cars on about 5,000 miles of railroads in the East, South, and Midwest. Pullman lost no time. Two months later Union Palace was purchased by Pullmans Palace Car Company for $2.5 million. Some parts of Union seem to have survived, because it was not finally dissolved until 1899.

The whole PULLMAN and carpet bagger era hits close to home, Jacksonville was HUGE in both worlds.
While a relation of "Ocklawaha" the majority of my family was on the other side in the War of Yankee Aggression, therefore, had I been alive... Perhaps Col Mann wouldn't have! Viva Quantrail!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Society for the Prevention of Calling Sleeping Car Porters "George"
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A Pullman sleeping car porter.The Society for the Prevention of Calling Sleeping Car Porters "George" (SPCSCPG) was an association composed largely of railway sleeping car porters in the United States to promote the elimination of the degrading and racist practice of referring to all porters by the name "George" regardless of their actual name. The name refers to George Pullman, of the Pullman Company, which at one time manufactured and operated a large proportion of all the sleeping cars in North America. Porters were overwhelmingly African American, and the practice presumably derived from the old custom of naming slaves after their masters, in this case porters being regarded as servants of George Pullman. The society was initiated by white railway employees actually named George, who were either annoyed by the practice, or thought that founding the society would be an amusing joke.

At its peak, the society had 31,000 members, including King George V of the United Kingdom, American baseball player George Herman "Babe" Ruth, and French politician Georges Clemenceau.[1]

Phillip Randolph formed the first African American Labor Union and became active in the Civil Rights struggle.
He organized the Brotherhood of Pullman Porters in 1925, but they were refused collective bargaining until the Socialist Party put pressure on the Pullman. Finally about 1937 they won a contract. Today the sons of Pullman Porters and onboard train crews are often represented by the Brotherhood of Railway and Airline Clerks, or the UTU.

Ocklawaha

[Coolyfett]

I did not know that Jacksonville was a city that "hated" itsellf...

This is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!

Thats interesting. I think you may want to talk to more people outside of the immediate circle. Hate is a bit strong, I wouldn't say HATE is word to use in that sentence. Maybe "lack of pride" or 'lack of interest" from many of the citizens. 

Sentence should read...Why does Jacksonville ignore itself?

[Coolyfett]

I did not know that Jacksonville was a city that "hated" itsellf...

This is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!

Do any of these people live in urban areas or do they all live in the suburbs...St. John's county perhaps?  Jacksonville will always appear to be a "nice place" when you shut yourself out from the reality of what it is and what it has the potential to become (good and bad).  For the majority of residents of suburban Jacksonville, you could transport them in their sleep to any other suburban destination in any other state and when they woke up they'd have no idea they ever left Jacksonville.  Is that how you want to live, in a cookie-cutter world completely devoid of passion and culture?

What the author was speaking about (correct me if I'm wrong) is a sense of pride in our roots and pride in our city, the original city, downtown, of which, the powers-that-be who determine what course of action is going to be taken regarding the best interests of our city, have none.

In my opinion, it truely is unfortunate that so many of our communities which are so far disconnected from the urban core, are considered to be, Jacksonville.  It's an injustice to what could be done for and in those smaller communities as well as what could be done for downtown.  Orange Park is over 30 minutes away from downtown Jacksonville by highway, the intercoastal communites and the beaches are even further.  People who live in those areas have a tendancy to stay in those areas because they have no reason to venture into downtown for anything other than a couple of games or shows and then they're out and back home.

So, again, depending on where you live in 'Jacksonville' and how much you choose to see/learn, it's either going to be "nice" or it will resemble a teenage girl with self-esteem issues, looking at fashion mags and trying to emulate Gisele Bundchen.

I think this is what I was trying to say.

[Coolyfett]

I do think it is a city that is being held back by , and Jax just has not realized it's full unlimited potential.

Rest your fingers mate. The word "TURTLES" works just fine.

Turtles - short sighted people and leaders now and in the past that have been in power.

[Ocklawaha]

Daughter Trilby just had a brain storm worth mention here...

"Dad, why don't you push the MJ guys to draw the Riverwalk like those beautiful sidewalks in South America (something posted on another thread recently if I recall). Then get the city to put our own walk of fame into the walk. Big Hollywood Stars! Names like Oliver Hardy, Allonso Mitchell, Tom Mix, Ray Charles, Phillip Randolph. I mean, we were the original Hollywood right? So why should they have a lock on it. Then over in by the railing, add a history marker, or a lifesize bronze..."

Damn Girl! Hum? What do y'all think of that one? Imagine getting ones photo taken with a lifesize Oliver Hardy as he leans on the rail looking out over the river? His own star illuminated behind him? DAMN!

Ocklawaha