Bay Street nightlife showing new growth? COJ and JSO to the rescue

[comncense]

Wow... someone sounds like a JSO cheerleader. I'm sure they are anxiously waiting to help out the community in need as they are flirting with women at local bars and nightclubs.

[soxfan]

If there are hookers on Main Street, and you see them, it is your civic duty to call the JSO and report the situation.  The JSO will respond to every call it receives.  If enough calls are logged concerning a certain address or activity, the JSO will effect a "raid".  It is unlikely that the weekend's DART action was based on a single complaint about the targeted establishments.

Jerry, I live in this area and believe me, their are some of us that have JSO on speed dial just for this reason. Our problem is the lack of JSO response. THEY DO NOT RESPOND TO EVERY CALL CONCERNING PROSTITUTES!!!! This was brought up at out latest Shadco meeting to Asst. Chief Ross and his answer was that prostitution has always been here and always will and there is not much that JSO can do about it. LITERALLY.. One of the people in the group continuously asked Ross to stop telling us what JSO couldn't do for us and tell us what they can do and Ross had nothing.. We have done everything possible to help the JSO with this problem and they continuously drop the ball. According to Ross, these flatbacks have to go somewhere. So Springfield is being used for a containment area. He did say that he has asked the only 4 Vice squad (in all of Jax) officers to try to work on this. We have gone out and walked the streets at night and chased them off until JSO asked us to stop and let them handle it. Nice Job JSO!!! We had it to a minimum and now that JSO has "taken care of it" it's back to a maximum. Jerry, please don't give out false info, the police don't respond to every call about prostitutes, we have proven it. I personally know someone who calls JSO no less than 4-5 times a day to report the prostitutes. If they truly will act if there is enough calls for a certain area then this area should've been targeted a long time ago...

[BridgeTroll]

It looks like the JSO is hanging out and raiding the wrong spots.  While TSI and Da Real Ting were getting raided, hookers were freely working the corners of Main Street with not a cop in sight.

JSO, DABT, Code Enforcement and the Fire Marshal most always are responding to complaints filed with them.  Apparently, complaints  against the clubs were lodged with at least one of these agencies.

If there are hookers on Main Street, and you see them, it is your civic duty to call the JSO and report the situation.  The JSO will respond to every call it receives.  If enough calls are logged concerning a certain address or activity, the JSO will effect a "raid".  It is unlikely that the weekend's DART action was based on a single complaint about the targeted establishments.

So if I complain about the code violations at the courthouse across the street from TSI they will raid and condemn that building also??

[RiversideGator]

So Stephen, you think that real (potentially dangerous for all we know) code violations in public bars and clubs should be overlooked because the places are "cool"?  There have been a long string of nightclub disasters in the US and internationally going back decades which indicates that perhaps a little caution is in order for these type establishments.

BTW, dont get me wrong.  I am not opposed to people going to bars.

[Eazy E]

So Stephen, you think that real (potentially dangerous for all we know) code violations in public bars and clubs should be overlooked because the places are "cool"?  There have been a long string of nightclub disasters in the US and internationally going back decades which indicates that perhaps a little caution is in order for these type establishments.

BTW, dont get me wrong.  I am not opposed to people going to bars.

Yeah, while I hate what happened to TSI, and think it's a misapplied use of funds, I think about what would've happened at the Milk Bar around '96-'99 if a fire broke out during a packed show-- anyone who was there can attest to the the fact that there would've probably been 100s of dead.
Code enforcement is a big deal.

[thebrokenforum]

It's not that they enforced codes at the place, because obviously, safety is a good thing. It's how they went about doing it. Why can't the fire marshall go in there himself - why all the shakedown and drama? To send a message? Message received: Murder all you want but have a baggie of weed on you, a fake ID or some faulty electrical work and incur the wrath of the JSO.

Regarding the hookers...someone is getting arrested because all those pictures they print in the victim's advocate are coming from somewhere. I have personally witnessed sting operations on Phillips before. It blew me away the number of people being arrested. And don't always assume that the hooker you see on the street is just a hooker. Some of them are cops.

Lastly, I am not defending what JSO did (or fails to do daily) but it's wrong to come down on beat cops about the raid and the responses to hooker calls. I've said this before but most of those guys just to what their told without thinking about it much. You have to look at who is in charge and who spearheads these things. It's highly doubtful that the raid(s) were initiated because of "hotline tips" only. That would be ridiculous. 

[BridgeTroll]

So Stephen, you think that real (potentially dangerous for all we know) code violations in public bars and clubs should be overlooked because the places are "cool"?  There have been a long string of nightclub disasters in the US and internationally going back decades which indicates that perhaps a little caution is in order for these type establishments.

BTW, dont get me wrong.  I am not opposed to people going to bars.

Actually this would be the opposite of everything I have ever stated in public or private regarding public safety, and quite a leap, which Im naturally unsurprised that you were able to make.

Wouldnt you like to suggest nominating me as the Vice President of Free Love while you are at it?

However, code enforcement is an ongoing process that does not require night time 'raids' embarrassing a place and intimidating its customers in order to be implemented.

TSI has multiple exits and I would invite you to visit the foot thick concrete walls of the tunnel and outdoor courtyard that comprises the majority of the club in order to see how unlikely a flash fire is inside the space.

Ryan Rummell, the owner of the club and a longtime downtown activist, not to mention the original creator of the gallery crawl that became the Art Walk, is also a faux finisher.

The solid plaster backed by concrete walls of the interior exceed the fire rating of the double stacked 3/4 inch drywall which is the standard 'firewall' asked for by new building code.

Ryan left that plaster intact and faux finished the surfaces to look like wood panelling and other surfaces.  Even a trained eye would be fooled until one ran a finger over the surfaces.

The club was busted for a few extension cords (absolutely illegal under code for a business---my business partner John used to make me crazy with their use.  He finally started hiding them from me so that I would stop throwing all extension cords into the trash.)  Some minor electrical work that while done to code was not done with a permit, and the new provision to build a newly required 'firewall', despite the safety of the current situation.

In addition, River, the raid was conducted in the most terrifying manner possible, with men in black masks and visible firearms.  I don't know about you, but this would be some country indeed if ALL our code enforcement issues were backed up by stormtroopers.

Although perhaps Springfield and Firestone Avenue would be much more pristine today if it were.

The very fact that Ryan and Jason have run a nightclub for four years that by its definition includes alcohol and young people without a single incident is itself a testament to the personal responsibility and caution to both these guys and their customers (of which there are quite a number on this board who post)

Code Enforcement is a big deal, and believe me when I tell you that I always welcomed the code guys.  They really are just there to ensure safety and you have to appreciate that mission.

But this incident obviously wasnt about that.

Surely it would have been cheaper to simply send a couple of undercover guys in to check the place out just to bust a sickly half joint of cheap marijuana.

I agree with Stephen here... If code enforcement was all they were doing they could have done it in the daytime or just as they opened.  I believe they can also isue a "fix it" ticket where the owner or manager can clear up the violation in 15 or 30 days.  That would be the proper way to "work with businesses"...

[thebrokenforum]

This is not a good way for the police department to build trust and relationships with the community.

Great point. But look who's in charge. The way things are run here remind a little of The Wire. 

[BridgeTroll]

This is not a good way for the police department to build trust and relationships with the community.

Great point. But look who's in charge. The way things are run here remind a little of The Wire. 

Ive got a call in to Sheriff Rutherford.  Hes quite bright incidentally.  A welcome change from the stereotype.  But this oppositional relationship with nightlife is counterproductive.

And yeah, I totally get The Wire similarity.

I know we would be interested in what he has to say about the incident...

[Coolyfett]

Incredible. So let me get this right the hipsters lose their place of fun, but the yuppies keep theirs??

Ninja Turtles are still turtles even when they have weapons.

I am so glad I don't have to put up with this crap anymore. Sorry to hear this yall.

[comncense]

When you're referring to "Yuppies" I'm assuming you're talking about Mark's and Dive Bar. I really don't see how you can make a point about it being the type of crowd they were targeting, when the crowd at TSI and Real Ting is pretty much the total opposite of each other. Who's to say that Mark's and Dive Bar wasn't 'checked' in similar fashion? But I do agree that there's probably something more to it than just "Hey, let's go check for building code violations on a Friday night." That in itself is sketchy. I just don't see how there's this "initiative" about encouraging entertainment venues to open downtown and the "Make a Scene Downtown" (which is funny now that I think about it), when the raids of these venues largely come off as not being for any good reason.

[konstantconsumer]

When you're referring to "Yuppies" I'm assuming you're talking about Mark's and Dive Bar. I really don't see how you can make a point about it being the type of crowd they were targeting, when the crowd at TSI and Real Ting is pretty much the total opposite of each other. Who's to say that Mark's and Dive Bar wasn't 'checked' in similar fashion? But I do agree that there's probably something more to it than just "Hey, let's go check for building code violations on a Friday night." That in itself is sketchy. I just don't see how there's this "initiative" about encouraging entertainment venues to open downtown and the "Make a Scene Downtown" (which is funny now that I think about it), when the raids of these venues largely come off as not being for any good reason.

mark's and dive bar were not checked in the same manner.  i'm sure we would hear about storm troopers filing into them.  while TSI and Da Real Ting don't cater to the same crowds, they do both cater to groups that many would like to see leave downtown.  if you aren't white and in an ill-fitting button down, they don't want you there.

[thelakelander]

mark's and dive bar were not checked in the same manner.  i'm sure we would hear about storm troopers filing into them.  while TSI and Da Real Ting don't cater to the same crowds, they do both cater to groups that many would like to see leave downtown.  if you aren't white and in an ill-fitting button down, they don't want you there.

Does Jacksonville really want a real entertainment district, which is what all the money dumped into Bay Street was meant to attract?  Nightlife districts spring up organically with a lot of diversity in who they cater too.  If Bay is to get to that point, non-yuppified establishments should be encouraged to become a part of the scene.

[jason_contentdg]

mark's and dive bar were not checked in the same manner.  i'm sure we would hear about storm troopers filing into them.  while TSI and Da Real Ting don't cater to the same crowds, they do both cater to groups that many would like to see leave downtown.  if you aren't white and in an ill-fitting button down, they don't want you there.

Does Jacksonville really want a real entertainment district, which is what all the money dumped into Bay Street was meant to attract?  Nightlife districts spring up organically with a lot of diversity in who they cater too.  If Bay is to get to that point, non-yuppified establishments should be encouraged to become a part of the scene.

As usual, couldn't agree more.  I'd love to see Atlanta's Vortex or something similar open up on Bay Street.

[comncense]

As usual, couldn't agree more.  I'd love to see Atlanta's Vortex or something similar open up on Bay Street.

Ahhh we can dream. I honestly don't see that happening here. It's a shame. We should start making a "When Pigs Fly" list.