Commuter Rail: Could Amtrak be the answer?

[gatorback]

The one fact the writer seems to be missing is that the Amtrak commuter lines that are used as examples are connecting densely populated areas with large metropolitan cities that have excellent public transportation systems.  Jacksonville is not a large metropolitan city and has a horrible public transportations system.

You are so correct Jax. 

lake:  that would be great if downtown was connected to Clay and St. Augustine.

I'm sure it wouldn't cost much at all to do that.  Why can't this happen?

[thelakelander]

It can.  Our leaders just need to change their priorities.

[j]

Could Amtrak be the answer?
You answered that with the excellent article.
Yes, absolutely!
Let's get started in Central Florida.

[Lunican]

FRA Issues Rail Relocation Final Rule

This week, the Federal Railroad Administration announced a Final Rule providing guidance for eligibility for capital grants under the Rail Line Relocation and Improvement program created in the SAFETEA-LU transportation reauthorization legislation.

In order to be eligible for grant funding, a project must mitigate the adverse effects of rail traffic on safety, motor vehicle traffic flow, community quality of life or involve a lateral or vertical relocation of any portion of the rail line. Under the law, half of all grant funds are reserved for projects costing no more than $20 million each.

A state or other eligible entity will be required to pay at least 10 percent of the shared costs of the project. Congress appropriated $20,040,200 for this program for FY2008 with $5,240,000 directed to nine non-competitive projects.

Last week, the Senate Transportation Appropriations Subcommittee approved FY2009 funding levels of $20 million for the Rail Relocation program. Of that funded amount, the $2 million was earmarked for Chicago's CREATE project, $1 million for the West Bay Freight Access Project at the Port of Vancouver, WA, and $1 million went to a short line project in Salem, NJ.

The Senate Subcommittee also approved a $1.55 billion appropriation to Amtrak and $100 million in capital assistance to states seeking to promote new intercity passenger rail service or improve existing passenger rail service.

Are JTA and FDOT paying attention to this?

[Ocklawaha]

Commuter rail in Hartford? YES

Sounds like having to rely on the freight carriers rail lines for passenger traffic is a losing proposition.  I don't doubt that the congestion on existing freight lines makes sharing the rails nearly impossible.  I don't believe other countries with high speed rail share lines with freight carriers.

You are correct that extensive track sharing with freight is a nightmare. If we are talking extensive, then we are talking 136 - 156 pound CWR (continuous welded rail) probably on concrete ties. When max loads are run over that track the rail flexes under the car wheels. Not to get too technical loads of coal and lumber or limestone or grains, can beat the track to death. So even if schedule keeping was fine, if we are talking about heavy mainline use, we got trouble. The facts are the trains and the track are heavier then ever before, and more tons are being moved then in the so called "hey day" of railroading. Bottom line? THIS IS THE HEY DAY!

Thought two, these facts didn't stop us before from running a first class freight and passenger network. If you can accept that a few spots, junctions or cities might be a bit rough... IE: the train rocks or bounces a bit, then this is something we CAN live with. When the mind of America was on the "DEAD RAILROADS" back in the 1960's-70's, the companies decided to cut back and show a profit as much from ripping out track as from running trains. Frankly, it went WAY TOO FAR, and mile after mile of needed railroad was sold as junk. It's not just AMTRAK that is paying for these errors, but the freight shippers themselves, as the schedules melt down.

The solution to the above could be as simple as the States or Federal Government offering low interest loans to rehabilitate miles of track. A simplistic package where the State, County or City assist with the track needs of both the freight carrier AND AMTRAK in order to meet a certain projected number of trains and train speeds. Once the deal is done, there needs to be a punitive side with a legal bite like a saber tooth tiger. "You said 6 miles of passing track and XXX new signaling system would allow 32 ON-TIME trains daily..." (Sound of BIG cat being released from his cage!)



CALTRAIN in the Golden State

The one fact the writer seems to be missing is that the Amtrak commuter lines that are used as examples are connecting densely populated areas with large metropolitan cities that have excellent public transportation systems.  Jacksonville is not a large metropolitan city and has a horrible public transportation system.

Where have you been sleeping for the last 50 years?? Weird? Jacksonville is larger then Dallas METRO-AREA when the cowboys came to town... Larger then Los Angeles when 1,250 miles of interurban railroad were constructed and larger by far then Dawson YT, Yakima, Ft. Smith, Kenosha, or Augusta, all of which have rail transit or a project in the works. You are right we are NOT a large metropolitan city, in area, we are THE LARGEST, and in population, we rank as number 3 in the East Coast States behind NEW YORK CITY and PHILADELPHIA...in that order. It's WAY PAST DUE to get to work on something big in local transit and I don't think another 30 miles of highway lanes and a few dozen buses will solve the problem.

If your talking about railroad importance, then it's no contest, Jacksonville wins hands down. 2 of the 3 class-one railroads in town make Jacksonville their home offices. Every train that enters or leaves the trunk of peninsular of Florida, MUST pass through Jacksonville. In passenger terms, we still have Union Terminal, it is the largest railroad station in the United States south of Washington D.C.. In terms of tracks and trains served, it WAS one of the largest with 29 tracks... bigger then ANY station in Chicago, more then both stations in Atlanta, or Chattanooga, and dwarfed such stations as Milwaukee, Omaha, Kansas City, New Orleans, Charlotte, Richmond, Memphis, San Francisco, Oakland or Los Angeles. Our railroad express and baggage terminals were the largest in the entire world, railway express maintained it's own terminal where JTA is today that had 32 tracks. Even with that, there was the Atlantic and East Coast Terminal over by Houston Street with another 4-6 tracks to a station that was about 1/2 mile in size. Don't think that history is lost on me, it is known in all of the railroad circles, we are the CHICAGO of the SOUTH.



Dallas, TRINITY RAILWAY EXPRESS and the rebuilt 50 year old Budd RDC cars...nice! Would you believe an entire fleet of 200+ RDC cars sit at a rebuilder in Canada just waiting for us to call in the order? TRUE.

How Can Jacksonville Benefit?

Several lawmakers and state Department of Transportation officials met with Amtrak representatives in Tallahassee this month. Amtrak Vice President Anne Witt told the group that the agency had no interest in running commuter trains, but it could link several cities' commuter and light rail systems.
Back On Track - Tampa Tribune - June 22, 2008


Judging from their recent conversations with Central Florida officials, Amtrak may not be interested in running a traditional commuter rail service in Jacksonville, yet there are still several ways for Jacksonville to benefit from embracing Amtrak's desire to expand in Florida.  These include:


Funding to relocate Amtrak Station to Downtown:

In the past, there has been concerns that due to funding issues, the proposed first phase of the Jacksonville Transportation Center could move forward without Amtrak on board.  Now that Amtrak will receive $15 billion over the next five years and with their desire to ramp up their Florida service, we now have another potential funding source to bring Amtrak back to the Jacksonville Terminal (Prime Osborn).  Station platforms that would have to built for Amtrak, could also be used as a part of a future commuter rail system.

More Amtrak, means less initial investment in local commuter rail:

If Amtrak runs more trains on the CSX A Line (Jacksonville to Orlando) and the FEC corridor (Jacksonville to Miami), this opens the door for Jacksonville using this system as a viable local commuter link between Downtown and cities such as St. Augustine, Orange Park and Green Cove Springs.  As opposed to funding an extensive commuter rail system that stretches to these communities, local officials could lobby for an additional Amtrak stop or two between Green Cove Springs and St. Augustine for example.

The money saved could enable a starter rail system to get off the ground quickly, that uses Amtrak as a complementing service linking Jacksonville with other First Coast communities.


Jacksonville to St. Augustine, via a Jacksonville to Miami route:

Rail-based passenger service between Jacksonville and St. Augustine ended over 40 years ago.  South Florida's push to return Amtrak service to the FEC corridor could benefit the First Coast by reconnecting another transportation link between St. Augustine and Jacksonville. 

Having a rail based link in place along one potential commuter rail corridor could allow us to properly phase a commuter, streetcar or light rail system here.  For example, if an Amtrak based line could operate enough trains between Jacksonville and Miami, to the point where commuters could benefit from the Jacksonville to St. Augustine link, it could be beneficial to use the S-Line as a part of the first phase to tie in Downtown with the Airport.  With that in mind, investing in only 15 miles of track could connect the Airport, Downtown, the densest neighborhoods of Jacksonville with St. Augustine and Orange Park (if we could lobby for an additional station here).


More Amtrak trains would allow use by commuters:

As mentioned earlier, frequent Amtrak service, with stations in St. Augustine and Orange Park, for example, would allow local residents to also potentially use Amtrak for commuter purposes, thus lessening the initial need for an expansive commuter rail line network, enabling extra transit dollars to fund additional needed elements in a local transportation master plan.


Cities, such as Emeryville, CA, have benefited from frequent Amtrak service by converting their stations into focal points of Transit Oriented Developments.

Transit Oriented Development: Emeryville, CA : http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/259/


Boston does it!

As Jacksonville moves forward in its quest for rail-based transit services and funding needed to help jump-start such a plan, partnering with an entity like Amtrak should be fully explored and their desire to expand in Florida should be taken advantage of.

SPV 2000's Amtrak-Budd Rail Diesel Cars

NEVER BEFORE IN OUR CITY HISTORY have the cards been so much in favor of major changes to our railroad system that would send shock waves through the competition cities. We need to strike while the iron is hot!
In Central Florida, Amtrak stops or plans to stop at DELAND-SANFORD-Winter PARK-ORLANDO-KISSIMMEE all within 60 miles. Pretty sad when we only have Clifford Lane Station, so far out that it uses a South Georgia weather radar, under a highway overpass, and in-between two junk yards. No reason to think with a political and money deal, tax incentives or other perks that we couldn't get CSX, NS and FEC to play trains with us. Give them those passing tracks, over or underpasses, close a couple of crossings, and slice their tax bills and watch THEM bid to operate the commuter rail.

They are ALL in the business to move train cars and make money, it is not a stretch to see a situation where that becomes a reality again. I am looking forward to more talks with JTA's director and to the mayor and council. We are in a position of great power, we could use it to give Amtrak a strong local shock back to life, or to jump start our own hybrid system of trains. There are many ways to do it and damn, we have many railroaders right here that call Jacksonville home. With Mr. Blaylock on board, a helping hand from City Hall, I'll wager we'll see trains before Orlando... JUST DO IT JACKSONVILLE!

Right over the top of that FEC streamlined train (the silver one) is a short dark shape, it's the dining car and lounge for the Gulf Coast Special. She hasn't arrived yet, but when she does, the cars will be added. They'll have signature cookies from the chef... I know, because I was there..."helping".


OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

I agree Ock.  We have to act now because other places are already lining up with their hands out, looking to benefit from Amtrak's extra funding.  I fear, that this city will continue to make excuses for doing nothing immediately, which will end up with us losing another crystal clear opportunity to improve or transit network and enhance our region's quality of life.

[RiversideGator]

Great analysis as always, Ock.  I always love reading your posts on Jacksonville's rail history.  You really have an encyclopedic knowledge of this area.  Also, that last painting/photo of the trains outside the old train station is great.  Where did you find it?  Also, is it a painting which can be purchased?

[Ocklawaha]

River, the painting hangs in my condo in Medellin... However, I'm friends with the artist, he and I grew up together in the shadow of the station. He is a wonderful guy and his prints are available. I see if I can dig out the website, he also has signed numbered prints. I know of at least 3 or 4 angles and era's of JTCO that he has done. I want to get him to do a Jacksonville Traction car racing alongside an Atlantic Coast Line train somewhere between current NAS and Ortega.  He also has a host of incredible mirror reflection photos of various local trains, The Champion, Meteor, etc... Rattle my cage in about a week (I''m moving this weekend)
and I'll fix y'all up. Anyone else?

OCKLAWAHA

[FayeforCure]

gatorback said: 

that would be great if downtown was connected to Clay and St. Augustine.

I'm sure it wouldn't cost much at all to do that.  Why can't this happen?

I very much like the idea of Amtrak doing this, and I' like to find out how we can make this happen.

My neighbors who live along Racetrack certainly would like an easy way to get downtown without having to worry about parking.