Mother sues CSX over trestle death of her son

[WmNussbaum]

This is an example of what lawyers are doing to this country, be careful what you do, someone will sue you for hot coffee at McDonald's!

Train, first of all let me acknowledge that I am a lawyer, although not a PI lawyer. Your comment is wide of the mark. The "lawyers" didn't give the folks the millions of dollars, the jurors did. And the jurors awarded the sum after listening to other lawyers - for CSX - argue that they shouldn't award anything.

I wish someone would come up with an acceptable alternative to the jury system in which a bunch of folks, not always the best educated ones, make decisions involving some pretty complicated legal issues - like the frequent thin like between 1st and 2nd degree murder. For myself, every legal agreement I draft has a "waiver of jury trial" provision in it, and I have yet to have anyone ask that it be taken out.

[carpnter]

It is horrible that the young man was killed - horrible.  But at its core we ALL know better.  Do you think that they were surprised to see a train coming?  Really?  I grew up playing on the very same trestle.  I knew that we weren't supposed to be there & that if caught there would be a price to pay - that's what kids do. 

Just wasn't horrible enough for you I guess?

And you played on the same trestle?

Sounds like the wrong kid got killed by the train.

I think you are a bit out of line with that comment.

[blizz01]

Hmm - I'm fairly confident that was directed toward your belligerence - stay classy Stephen.

[carpnter]

You know my biggest issue with the lawsuit is that the safety equipment not being functional really had nothing to do with the accident.  Yes, the train was traveling faster than allowed because the equipment was not working but if it were working properly the train still would have been traveling as fast as it was or faster and still would not have been able to stop in time to avoid hitting the kid.

[Ocklawaha]

Maybe OCK can tell us when the crossing gates began to be installed.  The huge death rates in the early years were probably due to unguarded crossings and more trains running than now.

Bet you that the railroads resisted installing crossing gates for as long as possible.

Were steam trains harder to stop the diesels?

'Donner, party of 18, 17, 16, 15...  Vivid image of dynamic brakes dissipating heat on the steep downhill run westbound on Donner Pass in California.

The same train, note the friction brakes! Ouch!

STOPPING the train was certainly at play in this tragedy. From the north or from the south the distance from the curve to the trestle is between 1,200 and 1,500 feet. A 75 car train running at 50 mph is going to need 1.5 miles to come to a complete stop. Needless to say, as long as a mile is 5,280 feet, the engineer didn't have a chance to stop.

This brings to mind another couple of victims in this case, both the engineer and the conductor will suffer trauma and mental anguish from the knowledge if not the visual effect of watching a teen vanish under the front of the locomotive. I've actually seen engineers so shook up they had to be led from the engine (City of Miami demolition of a fuel oil deliver truck near Ortega circa 1964 +/-). The engineer and conductor in the cab of the locomotives roaring downgrade in Southern California both have PTSD from spotting two toddlers in diapers sitting in the middle of the main track as they rounded a curve. The last thing they saw was one of the baby's turned and waved.

STEAM V DIESEL, Diesel has the advantage as the the diesel prime-mover is not attached to the wheels, rather it is a massive generating station, turning generator/alternator that in turn power 'traction motors' not unlike those on a streetcar which are slung down in the trucks.  Electric diesel locomotive dynamic braking is an advantage steam didn't have and it makes full use of the FACT that the armatures are always rotating when the locomotive is in motion and thus they can easily function as a generator exciting the field winding of the traction motors.

A common option on a Electric diesel locomotive is dynamic braking. Dynamic braking takes advantage of the fact that the traction motor armatures are always rotating when the diesel locomotive is in motion and that a motor can be made to act as a generator by separately exciting the field winding.

The winding is connected across the main generator and the armature of each traction motor is connected across an air cooled resistance grid, the dynamic brake grid in the roof of the diesel units hood. The prime-mover RPM is increased and as the generator is excited it causes the traction motor electric fields to likewise be excited. This means that each traction motor is now generating power which is dissipated as heat in the roof top grid. A fan uses forced air to cool the grid, a fan powered by the power output of the traction motors. The fan will run faster as more energy is applied to the grid.

Energy dissipated in the dynamic braking process, the electric-diesel (note the reverse words) imparted in the traction motor armatures. Therein the motors causes drag and the locomotive acts as a brake. The slower the engine goes, the less the effect until it runs it's course around 10 mph.

Dynamic Brakes are useful in hilly or mountainous territory where overheated friction brakes could easily cause a runaway situation. When an expert engineer handles a loaded train in such territory he or she will use a blend of friction and dynamic brakes, locomotive and train brakes which can all be applied independent of each other. Preventing a run in of slack in the couplings between cars or stretching out the slack without a sudden coupler busting jerk is another feature.

Steam locomotives have a defined weight advantage, the Union Pacific 'Big Boy' and the C&O or Norfolk Western 'Alleghenies'  or Mallet's using a compound cylinder or low pressure and high pressure cylinders, when 'wet' (operating order) would weigh in at or around 1,000,000 pounds! Playing with the 'Johnson Bar' (reverse lever) a steam locomotive can shorten the bore and stroke of the cylinders and an experienced steam locomotive engineer can use this making one of these giants dance like the prettiest ballerina in the fruit cake. I'd still give the advantage to the diesel.

http://www.youtube.com/v/PTac6qAewGM?version=3&hl=en_US

CROSSING PROTECTION:  Railroads don't resist crossing protection, in fact they'd overpass or underpass EVERY road or sidewalk crossing that funds permit. The signals themselves date to 1870 when the track circuit was invented, the first application was a warning bell. In 1909 the wigwag signal was perfected, it can still be found in isolated places in the western USA. The first use of flashing red lights goes to 1913 in New Jersey. Before that the biggest safety advance was the creation of the 'cross-buck' or 'X' sign as a national (and now international) standard. In large cities from Jacksonville to New York, Los Angeles or Seattle, crossing gates were manned by watchmen who could hand crank a gate across the roadway.

The deadly collision of a South Jacksonville Municipal Railways single truck Birney Safety Streetcar and a Florida East Coast freight train shoving a line of boxcars north into the old rail yard located where  the Hilton-Channel 4 are today. Heavy fog played into the story, steam engines being rather quiet, the cars were a long way from the engine. The watchman didn't see the cars rolling toward Atlantic Avenue and the streetcar was broadsided. A local mechanic that saw the boxcar jumped just before impact and was crushed to death as the cars rolled over him. This is a case where a electro-mechanical gate and flashing lights would have saved both a life and a streetcar.

FRA rules require that a train sound it's horn 1/4 mile from either a crossing or the Black Creek Bridge, and 20-30 seconds before any crossing, in addition to a single brilliant light and two ditch lights. Makes you wonder why the boys didn't all jump when the train blew for the crossing a short distance around the curves? New designs are now being tested, based on some of the homeland security barrier gates used to prevent bomb filled trucks from ramming state buildings, you won't drive around them.

Today, the railroads in cooperation with various State DOT'S will award a city money for every crossing it eliminates. When I lived in OK as a city councilman, a neighboring town made enough off of closing 4 crossings to completely remake a huge city park with... what else... a train ride! (KINGFISHER OK) Automatic gates followed the first flashing lights but they were not even in common use well into the 1950's. I recall when first flashing lights went up along Roosevelt at various crossings, as well as the first gates in the area. Okay, yeah I remember but I'm not THAT damn old! Am I?

[Dog Walker]

Ock, as usual your information is in depth and fascinating.  The whole dynamic braking explanation was completely new information and the pictures dramatic.

Thanks for the explanations!

Stephen, I didn't know that the railroads have the burden of proof in defending themselves.  Makes sense given the history of early accidents.  Can you point me to a source that would give the history of the legislation or court cases that put that into effect?

Wonder if any other industries like mining that have a long history of accidents and safety violations are in the same legal position.

[carpnter]

legally, no matter what happens, the railroad is liable for the incident, because of the dangerous nature of railroads.  And that has proven to be a wise approach to the industry for the past hundred years.

And I dunno, would you rather outrun a car going 30 miles or 46 miles per hour?

The other two boys who were closer made it, he hesitated literally a split second too long before he jumped, this really is one of those cases where following the law might have made the difference between life and death.

Do you see it differently?

If the car was traveling within the legal speed limit it doesn't matter what I would rather do.
I still think it is a crock of crap.  You shouldn't be able to hold the railroad liable simply because they are dangerous to operate.  You cannot block the trestle off completely to those who are determined to disobey the warnings and signs.  At some point those who choose to disobey the warnings and trespass have to be responsible for their actions.  I am sorry that those parents lost their child, but the fact is, if he had not been somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, he would still be alive today.