The Secret Scam of Streetcars

[simms3]

They (literally everyone working on the technology from Google to MB) are already testing out driverless cars on the streets of San Francisco and in the Bay Area.  These things are definitely coming.

But they are still cars.  Cities like NYC, SF, and DC have impressive carless ownership rates and high transit use rates, but still see worse congestion than you'll ever eve come close to having in Jacksonville.  Chalk it up to so many people in such a small area, but driverless cars won't be getting rid of or replacing transit.

Also, they will be very expensive at first and it will take many years to sort out regulations.  This is a more significant disruptor than Uber, so the two aren't really all that comparable.

Not to mention, many people actually like to drive.  You'll never get rid of the sports car or the idea that people like to grip the wheel, the clutch, press the gas, etc etc.  Driverless and driver cars *will* mix.  That will be a much larger challenge than figuring out navigation, which for all intents and purposes is basically already done.

[simms3]

^How much would the BRT cost if it were a subway?

Not sure, but the point of saying they were parallel lines only 0.5-0.75 miles apart was to indicate that had the other been subway, it would have cost a similar amount (well over $1Bn per mile).  Where the subway line is going in could never have been a BRT.  The BRT follows Van Ness, and given how expensive everything is to build here, I actually think if it saves a little money and achieves the same thing, then I'm happy for it.  Just wish that even though it were only BRT, it didn't take 5+ years to build.  Wish it only took 1-2 years to build (we're only talking a couple miles here).

[simms3]

Where I see inefficiencies in labor today is the fact that we still have conductors on subway trains.  These are the most incompetent people, with the cushiest employment contracts.  Trains are *already* automated and operated by computers.  Every single fatal accident or disaster is caused by human error - likely some union employee who doesn't give two shits about his job but easily pulls in a base of $90K and like 30 paid sick days.

I would love it if we could eliminate these wasteful jobs already...I've literally been delayed 5-7 minutes when a conductor misused his/her break time to smoke while we're all smushed in a packed train.  Then a month later they strike and we don't have any service.  I mean talk about technology *already* available and in use to eliminate these greedy and lazy people!

I don't have the same enmity with surly taxi drivers (I appreciate them greatly) as I do with transit workers, which are just the worst employees in any major city...

[Ocklawaha]

Ock, it seems like many really aren't familiar with the various types of fixed transit, how much they really cost and the different ways various technologies can be operated. Most streetcar conversations I have, typically end up with someone claiming they are slow and stop at every other block. In reality, they don't have to be if you don't want them to be.

Yes it's probably time for another primer article.

It's been one of the most amazing things to me that over the last 20 years the attacks against all things rail; "No tax for Tracks," "Big Choo-Choo," and the ubiquitous rants from "The Anti-Planner," have become more vocal. The root of the whole scam is CATO, Reason, Heritage, Liberty and another dozen or so conservative "think-tanks." There is a dedicated effort to destroy every railroad project in our country.

"You will realize too late that the electric railway is unquestionably more comfortable, more reliable, safer and cheaper to use than the bus system. But what can you do about it once you have permitted the tracks to be torn up? Who do you think you can find to finance another deluxe transit system for your city?" E. Jay Quimby, 1946

...And its the EXACT SAME CHARACTERS behind it all.

[Ocklawaha]

As for conductors, you'll have to take that up with the Federal Railroad Administration.

[Ocklawaha]

New Orleans kept a tiny token of it's once sprawling system. The idea that they are 'growing this carefully route by route,' is kind of comical as they already had a massive system that not unlike Jacksonville, was trashed. The big difference in the two is that New Orleans retained two lines as 'historic' and with them preserved the two maintenance and car facilities. Here are just a few of the original system's lines.
Coliseum line,
Magazine line,
Canal Street.
Desire line,
Freret line,
Gentilly line,
St. Claude line,
S. Claiborne line,
St. Charles line,

As a fun aside; The 1929 streetcar strike was tough on the city and the striking employees. The poor fellows on the picket line were fed sandwiches which will forever be known as PO-BOYS.

[Ocklawaha]

^How much would the BRT cost if it were a subway?

No doubt it would be close to the same, however, those discount priced BRT buses JTA is so happy about? They won't be around in 15 years! New Orleans operates car #29 built by Ford, Bacon & Davis (FB&D) in 1896!

[thelakelander]

^How much would the BRT cost if it were a subway?

Not sure, but the point of saying they were parallel lines only 0.5-0.75 miles apart was to indicate that had the other been subway, it would have cost a similar amount (well over $1Bn per mile).  Where the subway line is going in could never have been a BRT.  The BRT follows Van Ness, and given how expensive everything is to build here, I actually think if it saves a little money and achieves the same thing, then I'm happy for it.  Just wish that even though it were only BRT, it didn't take 5+ years to build.  Wish it only took 1-2 years to build (we're only talking a couple miles here).

Seems like San Francisco considered various transit technologies for the specific corridors and based on the terrain, one type was selected over the other.  This is how it should be.  I think too many times, we get in debates about which is better, throwing darts at one mode, in an effort to promote the other.

[Ocklawaha]

Very true, which is why if you want a quick 'Wal-Mart' type fix, you build BRT, but you need to understand at the get-go that this is not a long-term 'rapid transit system,' unless your investment approaches rail, in which case you should probably have built rail in the first place.

What Jacksonville is getting with the First Coast Flyer is an improvement over the bus system that has operated here since 1932. More frequency, better buses and a few other small perks including some exclusive lanes. What Jacksonville needs to understand is that we will be on our third set of new buses, and third recap of the pavement before Charlottes Streetcar go is for a midlife overhaul.

[Adam White]

Where I see inefficiencies in labor today is the fact that we still have conductors on subway trains.  These are the most incompetent people, with the cushiest employment contracts.  Trains are *already* automated and operated by computers.  Every single fatal accident or disaster is caused by human error - likely some union employee who doesn't give two shits about his job but easily pulls in a base of $90K and like 30 paid sick days.

Maybe it's that way in provincial little towns like SF or Atlanta, but that's quite a contention to make. As a former member of RMT, I find it practically offensive.

[I-10east]

The quasi-religious nutjobs at "Reason" don't think that way.

Please elaborate on this? They are about as liberal/libertarian as one can get (not saying that all of the left are anti-religious). It's nice to see something from the left that isn't fully enveloped within the party-towing bubble (on how the almighty streetcar is flawless, no questions asked).

[Ocklawaha]

The quasi-religious nutjobs at "Reason" don't think that way.

Please elaborate on this? They are about as liberal/libertarian as one can get (not saying that all of the left are anti-religious). It's nice to see something from the left that isn't fully enveloped within the party-towing bubble (on how the almighty streetcar is flawless, no questions asked).

Talk about your oxymorons 'liberal/libertarian,' is funny. These guys are so far to the right that John Birch is on their left!

[I-10east]

^^^Reason TV is libertarian, which is NOT an oxymoron with classical liberalism. Many libertarians have predominantly left leaning philosophies, like Bill Maher. IMO they do a pretty good job of mostly playing down the middle, but of course when they say something controversial to the left (and tell the truth) like this streetcar thing, suddenly they are 'heavily right leaning'...

[thelakelander]

What's so left or right about public transit and roads? It's simply infrastructure for crying out loud. A well designed community needs a good integrated mix of both.

[Adam White]

The quasi-religious nutjobs at "Reason" don't think that way.

Please elaborate on this? They are about as liberal/libertarian as one can get (not saying that all of the left are anti-religious). It's nice to see something from the left that isn't fully enveloped within the party-towing bubble (on how the almighty streetcar is flawless, no questions asked).

Quasi-religious doesn't mean religious. My point is that so-called "Libertarians" are practically a cult. Rand, Hayek, Friedman et al are the apostles and Reason is like the Watchtower or something. It's a metaphor, I-10.