Duval, Clay, Baker counties to end courthouse weddings to avoid marrying gays

[JaxJersey-licious]

Why do we want to celebrate sodomy? Why is wrong now right and right now wrong? Biology alone will tell you that this is no marriage. Furthermore, if you call this nonsense a marriage, than the number two is also arbitrary and polygamy should also be legal or any version thereof, with any number of persons who wish to joint themselves together. Our country has lost its moral compass and so now God has let us show what fools we are when we decide what is moral all by ourselves.

From my experience with people who have a hard time with same-sex couples and gay marriage, their outrage is really manifested on more systemic, generational, and societal issues that cannot be explained in a tweet or a simple one-paragraph blog post. Unlike many of my gay marriage sympathetic friends who dismiss these haters as simply ignorant, homophobic, and "not with it", I encourage a greater discussion about these deeper concerns by equality opponents. The more you look into what's really troubling gay marriage foes, it becomes less and less about gay marriage itself: It's an easy scapegoat and visible target for their frustrations, but their true concerns didn't start with the advent of marriage equality nor will it end with it's eradication.

What I really want to address is the importance of this day in Florida. All the naysayers make points like "this will probably lead to the legalization of..." or "there will probably be consequences for these type of unions..." etc. Let's discuss some other "probablies" many gay couples had to deal with: They could probably come to a state like mine where their marriage would be recognized and come back to Florida where said marriage probably wouldn't be valid therefore they probably would be at a big disadvantage concerning child custody issues because they would probably not be eligible for the same medical and insurance coverage traditional married couples receive. And god forbid if something catastrophic happened to a member of this same couple where the spouse probably wouldn't be initially covered under their partners disability benefits and would probably have to go through a myriad of legal hoops to get them plus the spouse would probably have to go through a long and harangued legal fight over long-term care they had mutually agreed upon and upon spouse's passing will probably be saddled with more expenses since the surviving spouse would probably not qualify for certain property and estate tax exemptions recognized married couples could take advantage of.

Although there are still many hurdles legally and socially on the way to true marriage equality, I am elated that as of today in the State of Florida, the "probablies" that may have burdened and stigmatized your same-sex marriage has become a full-blown reality.

God Bless all Florida marriages today and forever more...and KEEP ON CELEBRATING!!!

[Gunnar]

Why do we want to celebrate sodomy? Why is wrong now right and right now wrong? Biology alone will tell you that this is no marriage. Furthermore, if you call this nonsense a marriage, than the number two is also arbitrary and polygamy should also be legal or any version thereof, with any number of persons who wish to joint themselves together. Our country has lost its moral compass and so now God has let us show what fools we are when we decide what is moral all by ourselves.

From my experience with people who have a hard time with same-sex couples and gay marriage, their outrage is really manifested on more systemic, generational, and societal issues that cannot be explained in a tweet or a simple one-paragraph blog post.

Sorry, I don't buy that. Plus, the issue is that people are not allowed to live their lives as they wish because others don't feel good about it but cannot simply (really) explain why (or don't want to because their reasons are simply stupid) - is this acceptable in any way ?

That is why I asked Redbaron in my earlier post to explain why he feels that marriage can only be between a man an a woman - what better way to start a discussion ?

[finehoe]

...but their true concerns didn't start with the advent of marriage equality nor will it end with it's eradication.

True enough; they probably started with the freeing of the slaves or with giving women the vote.

[JFman00]

Fla. could become Deep South's prime gay wedding destination

But Jacksonville certainly won't.

[IrvAdams]

^^Many qualified people locally have stated they will perform ceremonies here for any gay couples desiring them, for any price from cheap down to free.

It's ridiculous to assume the mean-spirited feelings of one local clerk is going to stop the inevitable flow of change.

It's a day of celebration and freedom. Enjoy.

[thelakelander]

A response by Tallahassee's new mayor, concerning Fussell's decision:

Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum to North Fla. gay couples: Get married here

@MarcACaputo

Young.

Smart.

Black.

Mayor of Florida's capitol city.

Andrew Gillum was a rising star in the Florida Democratic Party's otherwise-dim firmament even before the courts overturned the state's gay-marriage ban.

But the historic decision gave him a chance to shine politically. And he did.

While many other Democrats were silent, Gillum criticized surrounding conservative North Florida counties for refusing to perform any marriages in court houses because some of their clerks oppose gay marriage. Gillum invited the gay couples to Tallahassee to get married in Leon County instead.

This obviously won't win Gillum any conservative votes. But he's not a Republican. And his move is already winning the hearts of liberals and gay-rights groups such as Equality Florida, which posted his statement along with a picture of the mayor and his family:

"At midnight tonight, most of the state of Florida will take a collective step towards complete equality by affording people the right to marry whomever they choose. I am disheartened, however, by the decision of several counties around Florida to discontinue the opportunity for people to have courthouse marriage ceremonies. In light of these unfortunate announcements, I would like to extend an invitation to the loving couples of Duval, Santa Rosa, Okaloosa, Baker, Clay, Pasco, Holmes, Washington, Jackson, Calhoun, Liberty, Franklin, and Wakulla Counties to hold their marriage ceremonies here in the Capital City. I hope that this issue reminds us that love is never wrong, and that equality must continue to be a part of the progress we work to drive in our community, our state, and in our country. As Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, 'The time is always right to do what is right.'"

The immediate politics aside, Gillum's advocacy for gay rights is also significant because of his race. African-Americans in 2008 were the most-likely racial/ethnic group to support Florida's gay-marriage ban, according to exit polls. The ban  passed with 62 percent of the vote. Non-Hispanic whites backed it 60-40 percent, Hispanics 64-36 percent and African-Americans 71-29 percent.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2015/01/tallahassee-mayor-andrew-gillum-to-north-fla-gay-couples-get-married-here.html#storylink=cpy

[Gunnar]

Great reaction  !

[IrvAdams]

A ray of light in North Florida's conservative politics.

[Rob68]

Its unfortunate  that most people in jax agree with the decisions to stop marriage at the courthouse..this city is still packed full of conservative right wing idiots who could care less about anyone who isnt a bible thumping baptist...this city is divided..it hates african  americans  and gays..lol...keep an eye on your neighbor...chances are he or she hates gays and african americans. What else can we do to poke a stick in the eye of conservatives?...what issue is next?

[Jumpinjack]

I don't agree that most people in Jax are idiots or care less about others. In fact, Mr. Fussell has maligned his clerks by claiming that they feel uncomfortable performing marriages at the courthouse - a few may but I'm betting some do not. Irv is right, we should be celebrating these changes and praising our judges, lawyers, and notaries who jumped up to say they are proud to do the right thing. 

[JaxJersey-licious]

Why do we want to celebrate sodomy? Why is wrong now right and right now wrong? Biology alone will tell you that this is no marriage. Furthermore, if you call this nonsense a marriage, than the number two is also arbitrary and polygamy should also be legal or any version thereof, with any number of persons who wish to joint themselves together. Our country has lost its moral compass and so now God has let us show what fools we are when we decide what is moral all by ourselves.

From my experience with people who have a hard time with same-sex couples and gay marriage, their outrage is really manifested on more systemic, generational, and societal issues that cannot be explained in a tweet or a simple one-paragraph blog post.

Sorry, I don't buy that. Plus, the issue is that people are not allowed to live their lives as they wish because others don't feel good about it but cannot simply (really) explain why (or don't want to because their reasons are simply stupid) - is this acceptable in any way ?

That is why I asked Redbaron in my earlier post to explain why he feels that marriage can only be between a man an a woman - what better way to start a discussion ?

Yes, it's a very simple and straightforward question to ask but it's no surprise to me that same sex marriage haters come up with the most insane and convoluted answers, if they bother to give an answer at all. Just goes to show how people can complicate simple questions.

A response by Tallahassee's new mayor, concerning Fussell's decision:

Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum to North Fla. gay couples: Get married here

@MarcACaputo

Young.

Smart.

Black.

Mayor of Florida's capitol city.

Andrew Gillum was a rising star in the Florida Democratic Party's otherwise-dim firmament even before the courts overturned the state's gay-marriage ban.

But the historic decision gave him a chance to shine politically. And he did.

While many other Democrats were silent, Gillum criticized surrounding conservative North Florida counties for refusing to perform any marriages in court houses because some of their clerks oppose gay marriage. Gillum invited the gay couples to Tallahassee to get married in Leon County instead.

This obviously won't win Gillum any conservative votes. But he's not a Republican. And his move is already winning the hearts of liberals and gay-rights groups such as Equality Florida, which posted his statement along with a picture of the mayor and his family:

"At midnight tonight, most of the state of Florida will take a collective step towards complete equality by affording people the right to marry whomever they choose. I am disheartened, however, by the decision of several counties around Florida to discontinue the opportunity for people to have courthouse marriage ceremonies. In light of these unfortunate announcements, I would like to extend an invitation to the loving couples of Duval, Santa Rosa, Okaloosa, Baker, Clay, Pasco, Holmes, Washington, Jackson, Calhoun, Liberty, Franklin, and Wakulla Counties to hold their marriage ceremonies here in the Capital City. I hope that this issue reminds us that love is never wrong, and that equality must continue to be a part of the progress we work to drive in our community, our state, and in our country. As Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, 'The time is always right to do what is right.'"

The immediate politics aside, Gillum's advocacy for gay rights is also significant because of his race. African-Americans in 2008 were the most-likely racial/ethnic group to support Florida's gay-marriage ban, according to exit polls. The ban  passed with 62 percent of the vote. Non-Hispanic whites backed it 60-40 percent, Hispanics 64-36 percent and African-Americans 71-29 percent.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2015/01/tallahassee-mayor-andrew-gillum-to-north-fla-gay-couples-get-married-here.html#storylink=cpy

See, North Florida! There is no need to be crying in your beer about how backwards and ignorant the area is when you have enlightened politicians and judges like him standing up for what's right. Yeah you will get some chiding nationally because of these clerks actions, but as time reveals again and again - it's better to be on the RIGHT side of history than get stuck on the wrong side of it.

And it's not too late to change sides, haters.

[Jimmy]

^^^^^

A very valid point, which Ron Littlepage mentioned in his latest column as well:

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/ron-littlepage/2015-01-06/story/ron-littlepage-fussell-should-know-better

[CutterJ]

The community should take this opportunity to come together and open a small pop up wedding chapel in one of the many vacant bldgs down by the courthouse and officiants could volunteer to officiate in the small pop up chapel. Or even better have some events on the new stage built in Hemming plaza.

[Jtetlak]

I agree with Stephen, which is why it is important to support candidates for City Council in March who are vocal about their support for an HRO.

And Cutter, there is a large wedding celebration in Hemming on Saturday.

[Jason]

While their reason for ending courthouse weddings is small minded and stupid, there is one good thing to come out of this-less government doing things. They should have never been in this business to begin with.
Maybe since they're doing less, we can save some money and lay some people off.

Marriages are contracts and they have always been performed by judges and clerks.  Going back to the founding of this country.  In fact, one of the main functions of a 'justice of the peace' was to officiate (and more importantly, record, marriages)

What I think is ironic about this of course is that many of these same people (meaning the people specifically, like Ronnie in particular) have been preaching against the dangers of 'moral relativism' for many years when the laws illegalized homosexuality itself as a crime.  "You may not agree with the law, but you have an obligation to obey it nonetheless".

This type of thinking seems to be fine when it comes to smoking pot, surrendering to body and car searches, and simply never being able to legally love someone, but not so fine when it comes to filling out paperwork.

Just some thoughts/questions here.

Marriages originated from religion, right?  If our constitution requires the separation of the church and the State, then why are marriages carried out by government?  Wouldn't ALL marriges be considered unconstitutional?

And as you state above, "Marriages are contracts".  Could we simply revamp the terminology or syntax to appease those that are against gay "marriages"?  Marriages would still be sacred ceremonies consumated through the laws/requirements of the church (or other religious institution) and a government approved contractual agreement that legally binds two people together would then be separated from the independently held ceremonies.  One is a "Marriage", the other is a "Civil Union" or some other term.  One holds weight with the religious institution that approved it and the other is an oficially recognized contract the state.  Hell, as it stands now, you can't get married without a marriage certificate.  Well instead of a marriage certificate, you get a civil union certificate.....

I dunno.  Seems I may be reaching a bit, however, revamping the terminology could go a long way towards distancing the church from the state.

Thoughts?