A Cheap Solution To Jax's Convention Center Problem?

[KenFSU]

There's more to all this than meets the eye.

It's going to come down to Khan vs. Hyatt, whether that be Hyatt directly or Hyatt playing nice with one of the developers.

If Hyatt didn't have right of first refusal, I think Iguana would have likely submit a bid on the Courthouse site.

The political games should be fun to watch, and if a new convention center ever does get built, hopefully the multiple suitors result in a better deal for the city.

For the sake of downtown redevelopment, I vastly prefer the Courthouse site. It's probably shovel ready five years before the Shipyards as well between the Hart Bridge ramps and remediation. But in terms of building a successful convention center, I think a location adjacent to Lot J, the Doro District, and the sports complex could be really marketable to meeting planners as well.

The wild news month continues...

[Papa33]

Iguana is looking to put the convention center closer to the stadium.  See jaxdailyrecord.com.

[KenFSU]

Here's the site plan:

[Tacachale]

The Courthouse site is the only logical place for a convention center. A convention center a mile away in the stadium district won't have any much more impact on Downtown than the Prime Osborn has. No one is walking from that thing a mile past a coffee plant, jail, police station, etc., to get to the downtown core where the foot traffic and entertainment dollars are most needed.

The Shipyards and Stadium District should focus on adding things that don't directly compete with the Downtown Core. The indoor venue is fine; more housing would be a great add.

[Tacachale]

Here's the site plan:

So in other words, it's *not* a 500 square foot convention center, it's like 200 square feet and an empty field for theoretical "Future Convention Expansion". Plus a convention hotel to compete with the convention hotel we have now, and a parking garage. Great.

[Charles Hunter]

Having Rimrock on both sides of the fence could be problematic.  Having been on consultant selection teams, it would play, somehow, in my evaluation, so I assume it will affec the team's deliberations.  But how?  If you select Rimrock for the CH site, how engaged will they be - or as Itsfantastic pointed out, who gets the "A" team - the City or Khan?  Or, because of such doubts, does a reviewer give them fewer points in the evaluation?

[Charles Hunter]

A new convention center will require City participation.  I will assume the evaluation of the 3 proposals will proceed.  But, when will the City make a decision between Khan and the Courthouse site?  How long will the CH proposals remain valid, in case the City negotiates with Khan, but can't come to an agreement?  If Khan gets the green light, will there be a deadline to start construction?  We have seen pretty drawings many times, but no dirt has turned.  What about remediation of the Shipyards site - who will undertake that, what will it cost, and how long will it take?  Someone upthread opined that a Courthouse site could be well under construction, before remediation is finished.

Or ... is this a negotiating ploy by Khan to get more from the City for his Lot J/Metro Park plans?  As a 'consolation prize' for not getting the convention center?

Questions - who will have answers, and when?

ETA - relooking at the renderings, I see they are not on the area commonly called "The Shipyards" - west of Hogan Creek, but that entire area used to be working shipyards, and will likely require remediation before building anything more substantial than a park.

[thelakelander]

Here's the site plan:

So in other words, it's *not* a 500 square foot convention center, it's like 200 square feet and an empty field for theoretical "Future Convention Expansion". Plus a convention hotel to compete with the convention hotel we have now, and a parking garage. Great.

What I see so far is something that competes with the Northbank for everything. Vystar, JEA, Landing/Lot J, convention center, etc. Complimentary infill development should not necessarily compete head to head (with public assistance) with the real downtown. Is this what Jax really envisions when the term downtown revitalization and vibrancy comes to mind? Are there any successful revitalization stories from peer communities of similiar size that have taken this approach?

[jaxnyc79]

Here's the site plan:

So in other words, it's *not* a 500 square foot convention center, it's like 200 square feet and an empty field for theoretical "Future Convention Expansion". Plus a convention hotel to compete with the convention hotel we have now, and a parking garage. Great.

What I see so far is something that competes with the Northbank for everything. Vystar, JEA, Landing/Lot J, convention center, etc. Complimentary infill development should not necessarily compete head to head (with public assistance) with the real downtown. Is this what Jax really envisions when the term downtown revitalization and vibrancy comes to mind? Are there any successful revitalization stories from peer communities of similiar size that have taken this approach?

112 East Bay Street to Marsh Street is 0.4 miles.  I don't think the Convention Center set up at the Shipyards is all that big a deal and can still be impactful to all of Downtown.  Would the same amount of remediation be required for a Convention Center use versus a Residential use?  If so, then the shovel-ready state of the courthouse probably makes sense. 

[KenFSU]

^To make either location work, I think we BADLY need fixed transit down Bay Street, linking the CBD to the sports and entertainment complex. If we end up building at the courthouse site, it'd be a quick, safe streetcar-ish ride down to the sports complex. If we build at the sports complex, it would be a quick, safe ride into the CBD and surrounding hotels (350 ain't a lot for a 200,000 sf convention center). Bonus points if it went all the day down Bay and into Brooklyn. I don't see you promote real synergy between the two areas without transit.

[thelakelander]

Why measure only to Marsh? What's shown in the renderings is Metropolitan Park. It's literally across the street from Lot J at the stadium around Franklin Street.

[thelakelander]

^To make either location work, I think we BADLY need fixed transit down Bay Street, linking the CBD to the sports and entertainment complex. If we end up building at the courthouse site, it'd be a quick, safe streetcar-ish ride down to the sports complex. If we build at the sports complex, it would be a quick, safe ride into the CBD and surrounding hotels (350 ain't a lot for a 200,000 sf convention center). Bonus points if it went all the day down Bay and into Brooklyn. I don't see you promote real synergy between the two areas without transit.

The courthouse site is on the edge of the Northbank core. You would not need transit to make it work. It's easily walkable from the critical mass of built density in the Northbank. At Metropolitan Park, mass transit would help but it would still be a competing isolated node. Might as well build a hotel and shops at the Prime Osborn. With the redevelopment of Brooklyn and LaVilla, access to I-95, the JRTC and the skyway, it's more centralized and cheaper than the Shipyards. Plus they're dumping millions into McCoys Creek. So if we aren't going to cluster for pedestrian scale synergy in the core, give taxpayers a break and leave it where it is.

[JaxAvondale]

I think the Courthouse is a better site for the convention center but I don't think it being in the stadium district is a huge problem. The distance isn't that long. Off the top of my head, New Orleans convention center is about the same distance from the French Quarter. Dublin's convention center is farther from the city center along the river.

[Tacachale]

Why measure only to Marsh? What's shown in the renderings is Metropolitan Park. It's literally across the street from Lot J at the stadium around Franklin Street.

Just measured. The proposed site is .8 miles from Liberty Street and 1.1 from Main. The Courthouse site is at Liberty Street and .3 miles from Main.

[jaxnyc79]

Because that's where you could conceivably enter the sprawling complex.  I attend conventions all the time and very often, various elements of the assembly are spread out over a vast area, including day-time lectures versus evening networking events over cocktails, etc.  At any rate, I don't know exactly how this complex is being designed or where various gathering places and exhibition spaces will sit, it's merely a guess at how this might work...as we are all guessing.  I just don't think the distances between spots is as big a deal as it's being made out to be by some on here.