A Cheap Solution To Jax's Convention Center Problem?

[acme54321]

Yeah the courthouse site is easily walkable from all of the major hotels downtown.  Including the Doubletree on the southbank.

[FlaBoy]

Additional hotels tend to come along as the market grows to support their operation.  Growing up in Central Florida, I can say this was definitely the case with Tampa's. I'm not sure downtown Jax's market demands several new hotels but we're getting another one in the form of the Laura Trio soon.  A decent centralized convention center would at least help the stabilize existing hotels like the Hyatt and Omni. If they're successful, more will naturally come.

Understandable. Are you in favor of demolishing the Annex as part of the convention center or keeping the tower at least in some form?

[thelakelander]

I prefer seeing it saved.  I hate losing built density in downtown because if reactivated, more tax revenue and foot traffic is generated.  If demolished, we won't be getting anything new that packs that much space vertically. I personally believe the old Annex would be a perfect candidate for market rate housing.  However, saving it only works if you build an exhibition hall on the old courthouse site and connect it, via a skywalk, to the Hyatt's meeting spaces. If COJ wants to build a full convention center, it's probably a goner.

[vicupstate]

Why would you want a hotel at City Hall Annex/Old courthouse when there is already a huge one there?   

Aren't there normally a few hotels around a convention center?

Only if you host the kind of conventions that draw large amounts of visitors. Jacksonville won't host those kind of conventions until they obtain enough attractions/amenities to rival an Orlando, San Diego, or Las Vegas. Until that happens, it will be boat shows and Z-list celebrity comic-cons for downtown Jax.

I have been to a lot of mid-range convention centers in places like Tampa, Birmingham, Baltimore, Chattanooga, etc. Usually at least two hotels around.

Keep in mind that the Hyatt has over 1,000 rooms. It is a big as two hotels would normally be all by itself.   

[FlaBoy]

According to AG Garcarski, both the Courthouse and Annex are going to be demo'd:

Movement on a recurrent issue: $3.6M for courthouse remediation and demolition; $4.4M for the same for old city hall, which includes asbestos remediation, with the properties will be returned to greenscape. Mousa speculates that implosion will be the end game for these structures.

The last $8M for Liberty/Coastline rebuild, completing a $31M obligation, is also in the CIP.

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/241515-lenny-currys-third-budget-another-year-of-winning

Makes me think the other shoe will drop soon on a convention center there.

[Tacachale]

Well, I guess that's that.

[Papa33]

If the city wants to demolish something, they ought to demolish the eyesore that is the parking garage at the foot of the Main Street Bridge (across from Cowford Chophouse).  Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure its privately owned and the tenants of the Independent Life, er Modis, er Wells Fargo Building would never let that happen, at least now without a replacement.

[thelakelander]

That garage is privately owned. My guess is that the courthouse/city hall annex demo is to make way for a future convention center.

[MusicMan]

Do we really need a convention center? Wouldn't that money be better spent on more pressing issues?

[Tacachale]

A convention center would be a good use of money. However it depends on the plans.

[remc86007]

Do we really need a convention center? Wouldn't that money be better spent on more pressing issues?

From a downtown development standpoint, outside of subsidizing residential development, I can't think of a better use of money, can you?

[MusicMan]

I'm just looking at the convention business in the state/region, and I know nothing about it.

Who would we be competing with?  What nearby markets can you point to today that are successful at drawing convention business?  Doesn't Daytona Beach have a convention center? How busy are they?  Obviously we cannot compete with Tampa, and Disney/Orlando for large conventions? How many nights a year will it be booked?  How successful are start ups in this industry? From zero to how many conventions a year are we looking at? What role does the COC play in this? What experience do they have in this business?

The title of the thread implies doing it on the cheap. How has that fared in other cities?

I actually work downtown, and drive through it on the weekends frequently. That's something our City Council should do at least once a month.  I'm skeptical. 

[Tacachale]

^The convention issue has been discussed here pretty extensively, including in this thread. The main consideration is that we're already in the convention market with the Prime Osborn, so it's more a matter of trying to improve our prospects, rather than starting something from scratch. We don't have to compete with Orlando or Tampa to get our slice of pie.

The Prime Osborn had a good run, but it's never been a great convention center. We can expect an updated center that's adjacent to the main hotel (the Hyatt) to do better than the Prime Osborn. Because the courthouse site is in the center of downtown instead of an isolated building surrounded by empty lots, we can also expect the impact of attendees on the surrounding area will be higher.

The impact will come down to the design and the expense. To me, and I imagine others here, there's a real opportunity cost in losing the old City Hall building - it'll be a very long time before we see that kind of density in the Downtown core again. At the same time, the Courthouse site alone is not big enough to build a convention center that would exceed the quality of the Prime Osborn. That's why Ennis' idea of sort of combining the Courthouse site with the Hyatt is compelling - if it would work, we'd get an impressive impact without the full expense. Either way, a new convention center would be a good use of money, and this is the best location for it.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

FWIW, Orlando is doing close to a $5M remodel to the OCCC starting after the summer to be complete by the first part of next year.  Basically finishes only.   And I worked on another one about twice this scope about 3 years ago.

Is that something we would ever be able to compete against?  I don't think so.

[thelakelander]

We don't compete against Orlando now. That's not the goal of moving the existing convention center out of the Prime Osborn.  The goal would be to cluster complementing uses (exhibition hall, hotel rooms, restuarants, bars, shops, etc.) with a compact setting (right next to each other instead of a mile apart). The other major benefit is that the Prime Osborn can then be converted into a complementing use to the transportation center going up across the street.....an intercity passenger rail station, which is what it was designed for in the beginning.