Peter Rummell's Healthy Town Site Plan Released

[finehoe]

Reading this, it sounds like the anticipated ground breaking is 6 months behind previous press releases. It was supposed to break ground this summer. However, the FTU article makes it sound like December 2016 or early 2017.

Does anyone have the latest on what's going on here?

[KenFSU]

The Downtown Development Review Board approved the master development plan late last year.

Final steps:

- Execution of a redevelopment agreement with the DIA
- Approval from the Mayor's Budget Review Committee
- Approval of the development plan by City Council

Unless something has changed or changes, construction should be underway by April.

[thelakelander]

Here's some more info: http://residentnews.net/2017/01/03/district-developers-discuss-risks-involved-developing-jacksonville/

[camarocane]

I find it interesting that both Rummell and Munz are against the skyway being extended into The District. I wonder if there's been talk of them building it into the master plan themselves, which would increase the upfront cost (and be understandable).  Or if they are just against the idea in its entirety...

And the "built up" areas downtown, are they referring to the Trio? I don't understand why Rummell thinks that would be boring...

[thelakelander]

To me, extending the Skyway into the District would be a waste of money. As it stands now, Kings Avenue Station is already less than 800 feet away. That's well within a 1/4 walk radius of a transit stop.  Save that cash and use it to really get the Skyway somewhere beneficial.

[KenFSU]

Someone also speculated in a previous thread that 1) the Skyway has a negative stigma that they don't want associated with their development, and 2) it would provide a direct connection into the District for downtown's "undesirables."

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

This comment from Munz is brutal towards Jacksonville:

Luring people to Jacksonville who are willing to take a risk is tough, said Munz. "If we want to have the Jacksonville we want, we've got to have investors," he said. "The most frustrating thing for the two of us is when we've brought in investors – people you would yearn for that come from Peter's Rolodex – and they say, 'Peter, you've done this for 45 years. You've built Disney Paris, Disney Hong Kong and Celebration. You've done things people said would never work, but this is Jacksonville. Are you kidding me?' Now that shouldn't be an answer, but it is. People have to accept the fact this is an investment. There is an economic situation with this."

[thelakelander]

^It's reality. It's easier to deal with reality and overcome the challenges when one can admit their shortcomings.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

^It's reality. It's easier to deal with reality and overcome the challenges when one can admit their shortcomings.

I don't disagree.  Just noting how hard that hits based on the source.   

[thelakelander]

^Yeah. People tend to wonder why the private sector isn't rushing to spend money on old buildings like the Trio or Berkman II. It has much more to do with the reality of the market and less to do with what's happening in city hall.

[Westside Guy]

To me, extending the Skyway into the District would be a waste of money. As it stands now, Kings Avenue Station is already less than 800 feet away. That's well within a 1/4 walk radius of a transit stop.  Save that cash and use it to really get the Skyway somewhere beneficial.

You hit the nail on the head.  There is literally no need for a skyway extension to the District.  As someone who has worked in that area, it really isn't that far of a walk to anywhere in the area.  Besides, how healthy would our Healthy Town be if people can't even walk across a parking lot?

[RattlerGator]

I don't see that comment as brutal towards Jacksonville at all. Those investors are human, too. They suffer from the same biases most of us suffer from. And, to add to the difficulty, that's a global crowd he's talking about. Pro-Miami bias? Yes. Negative Southern bias? Yes. Tourism bias? Yes. None of those work to our favor and none of them are our fault.

So, do those global investors Munz is talking about have the slightest clue how to see Jacksonville? Hell, many of y'all don't have the slightest damn clue how to see Jacksonville other than a relentlessly negative "why can't it be more like _________" nonsense.

Few cities have the available riverfront locations (including the intracoastal) and beach access that we have to channel development momentum. This includes wide stretches of available and relatively cheap land for coastal communities -- incredibly rare for an urban area like this. These amenities, and they are extremely good amenities, are focal draws away from downtown. It's an absolutely unique situation that clearly frustrates the urban core crowd, the "faster, please" crowd. Okay.

But we're clearly at a tipping point. Investment opportunities in our urban core will be a much easier sell in the next decade (again, it can't be said enough: thank you, Shad Khan). Although Munz may have very well meant his statement to be a lament the way Ennis took it, they did decide to build the project here -- correct? That required due diligence on their part, did it not? The end result of the go/no-go decision cycle was a very definite "go" was it not? So, the real lament (even if subconscious and unstated) is more likely to be a frustration with the simple, human biases at play. Biases that block clarity of vision. The kind of biases (hello, Ennis) that -- for instance -- make a knowledgeable party on this board link Jacksonville to Memphis.

[thelakelander]

^I wouldn't call a statement or understanding that Jax and Memphis are lower tier cities (in terms of scale and investment) than places like NYC, Miami and Chicago. That's just reality. As we grow, there will be more investment opportunity but it will take those willing to take the risk (like Munz and Rummell) being successful to ultimately attract more.  Khan's investments will also help. 

220 Riverside and Brooklyn Riverside are prefect examples. Those two infill projects coming into the core and not failing, have basically opened the flood gates for similiar infill multi-family residential.

[vicupstate]

The reason investors have been slow to do in JAX what was occurred elsewhere, is that JAX has been VERY late to the game. It still remains to be seen how much JAX has evolved into an urban renaissance mode instead of a suburban sprawl mode. There is some momentum building but it seems to be mostly limited to the Southbank and Brooklyn. To some degree those have to be attributable to the success of San Marco and Riverside respectively. All of what has been proposed may not actually get built either or it may be a considerable timeline.

Mr. Khan has only invested in his own stadium thus far. I am hopeful that will change soon, but let's see what he is proposing first. Regardless it will be a long-term build out. That proposal coupled with the Intuition/Doro area could truly be a big deal. Even so, it still leaves the Northbank core on the 'To Do List'.  I don't see JAX as being at the tipping point yet, but if 2017 goes well, it might be within sight of it.       

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I don't see JAX as being at the tipping point yet, but if 2017 goes well, it might be within sight of it.       

I would agree with you here, but I'm really loathe the phrase 'at the tipping point'.  What does that even mean?  #rhetorical

I like the outlook that Rummel and Munz have on their project.  They seem to be hopeful, but not obscenely confident.  As Rummel said at the beginning of the posted article - the best thing for Jacksonville is if this project makes them both an obscene amount of money. 

I do think the sports district is getting a needed boost with their own district coming online and I fully expect something from Khan in that area as well, but the key to all of this is going to be sustainability. 

Early success is great.  Momentum is awesome.  But what this town has been in dire need of for a long time is sustained success.

To use your words, I felt like this city might have been at a 'tipping point' around 2004/2006, but once the housing market tipped, so did all of our hopes - right in the dumpster.  10 years later, here we are again.   What's going to be different this time?   We have several clusters of development happening at the same time.  In order to make this thing work, there HAS to be something tying them together.