The Buckman Bridge

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Who remembers when it was only two lanes in each direction and how scary it was driving over it?

I don't remember the Buckman, but back home, we had the Broad River Bridge in SC that connected Beaufort and Jasper county.  It was a 2-lane drawbridge that was about 2miles long.  They rebuilt it probably 10 years ago or so to a 6 lane bridge with a peak in the center for the sailboats.

I used to bike over it 3-4 times a week and somehow I'm still here.

Edit:  I checked the wiki, I guess it's only 4 lanes.

[David]

Who remembers when it was only two lanes in each direction and how scary it was driving over it?

I do. My older brother broke down on it sometime in the mid 1980's in a Chevrolet Chevette and we had to push it quite a ways before we finally get a tow to Orange Park. Good times!

[I-10east]

Combined average daily traffic on the Buckman Bridge is 121,500 vehicles (as of 2010).

So, in the last four years, approximately 177 million vehicles have crossed the Buckman.

Two have gone over the side.

A heartbreaking tragedy, but I like those odds, and see this as more of a perception issue than a reality.

Well said. I don't have any issues crossing the Buckman. The main perilous situations of crossing just about any bridge are avoiding the 'neck and neck' driving, being aware of the space around your vehicle (the 'book' tell you to maintain your speed when someone is tailgating, that is BS IMO, I speed up and let them through) and keep the highways 'open' avoiding these dangerous lane-switching 'narrow windows' like what most likely lead to that unfortunate accident.

[Charles Hunter]

Most people are only doing 70-80 (hopefully) so it seems that an extra few feet may help catch a vehicle sent airborne. The cost alone of constructing that on the entire span is probably too high.  3+ miles of safety upgrades.

4 seems right. That's how many I remember. The poor soul yesterday, the one a while back that was caused by a ladder in the road and two others that have lived. The Fuller Warren has similar barricade height but we haven't heard about too many people going over that one since it's way shorter.

I'm just curious as to what safety options are out there for long bridge spans like the Buckman. I'm sure there's been a few similar accidents on the lake Pontchartrain causeway in Louisiana. 23 miles long. It just seems like there should be something in place, for incidents like this.

I'm no expert, but I've had my fair share of crashes.  It's not so much how fast that the cars are traveling with the bridge, but the speeds that they're able to maintain while traveling perpendicular to the bridge.  My guess is that the bridge is about 150ft wide? That's a lot of room to get sideways and maintain speed.

I would also guess that the average speed on the FWB is probably 15-20mph lower than that of the Buckman due to the general traffic patterns, exits, on-ramps, approaches and such.

Some quick math on the bridge width - it is two bridges, each with four driving lanes (about 12 feet), and two break-down lanes (about 10 feet)
4 x 12 + 2 x 10 = 48 + 20 = 68 feet each

Enforcing the speed is difficult - if the cops are on the bridge, people will slow down behind and around them; if they aren't on the bridge, there is no practical way for them to catch speeders.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Some quick math on the bridge width - it is two bridges, each with four driving lanes (about 12 feet), and two break-down lanes (about 10 feet)
4 x 12 + 2 x 10 = 48 + 20 = 68 feet each

Damn!  Scaled off of Google Earth at the same measurement.  I forgot that the bridge is split...

[David]

I get the points about driving habits, but what if money weren't an issue and the barrier upgrades needed to happen. What could be put in place to prevent the average size/weighted vehicle from flipping off the side of the bridge?  A higher concrete barrier wall,  cable barriers on top of the current barricade?

This is probably a question that would require some serious resources, but i'm trying to imagine the point(s) of impact and how much space the vehicle cleared the barrier by.

Also, thought I was looking up yesterday's story on Jacksonvile.com and turns out it's  from 2010

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-03-01/story/fdot_buckman_bridge_not_to_blame_in_fatal_accident

And the other one involving the ladder in the roadway was before that, bringing the fatality total (from this type of accident) to 3 I believe.   4

http://www.news4jax.com/news/questions-about-raising-buckman-bridge-barriers/26983742

[thelakelander]

Who remembers when it was only two lanes in each direction and how scary it was driving over it?

The four lane Buckman used to remind of the four lane Howard Frankland in Tampa, even though it was a single span:



However, the scariest bridge I've driven across is the old John Grace Bridge in Charleston.



http://www.youtube.com/v/O5r1pRA0e5U

[thelakelander]

Speaking of flipping over the bridge, when's the last time this has happened on the Dames Point?

[David]

The Dames Point scares people way more than the Buckman! But the barricades do appear to be a similar height. Speed and length of the span definitely play a role on the Buckman.

And forgive me if I'm geeking out a bit about road barrier technology. It's from working around all the design/build guys at my current employer.  The debate about if it's needed is one thing, but i'm really curious as to what the perfect bridge barrier would look like.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

And forgive me if I'm geeking out a bit about road barrier technology. It's from working around all the design/build guys at my current employer.  The debate about if it's needed is one thing, but i'm really curious as to what the perfect bridge barrier would look like.

Nah, it's kind of a cool discussion to have.  Here's my take:

The force of the cars hitting the slightly inclined, immovable surface is what allows the cars to become airborne, right?  Well, instead of raising the height or adding cables over the guardrail, why not allow for a softer impact before the cars get to the barrier.  I would say using some high-tension cable attached to some sort of hydrolic arresting system that projects into the shoulder 18"-24". 

Ultimately it would require some sort of retrofit on existing work as to not cause the span to be too narrow, but could be incorporated onto new projects with no problem. 

But if that's too expensive and too 'out there', I guess we could use haybales... 

[David]

Cool idea. Haybales might work too! haha

Realistically I don't see much happening but I do like daydreaming about what safety upgrades are possible.  I'm a fan of cable barriers to help catch a vehicle while airborne, but I don't know what their weight/tension/impact limits are.

For the comments about speeding, the only way to enforce it seems to be from the air. There's no safe place for the police to hide on the Buckman. 

Slow driving is a problem on there too. Every once in a while you'll see someone doing 45 on the bridge for no apparent reason. No hazards, they just want to go slow.

[Ocklawaha]

Hay bales is a perfectly designed idea for epic fail. They deteriorate, the grass falling onto the pavement would create a Florida version of 'black ice,' there are dozens of other reasons why this would not work.

Prestressed cable barriers such as these may offer the answer.

http://www.youtube.com/v/-zGJYVe-qms?version=3&hl=en_US

http://www.youtube.com/v/MAbo3-jyzGY?hl=en_US

[Overstreet]

Old people may recall 15 to 20 years ago a car accident on the Hart bridge where the young girl was ejected from the vehicle over the rail an into the water. A fisherman collected her up and she lived.  It can happen most anywhere.

Also you will recall the Shands bridge a woman on the way east in the morning was blinded by the sun and didn't see the stopping concrete truck and bounced her way into the water. She lived.

These rare accidents occur. Slow down, don't change lanes and pay attention to the car ahead not the view.