Downtown Revitalization: Detroit

I-10east · October 21, 2014, 01:57:23 AM

Quote from: peestandingup on October 21, 2014, 12:32:22 AM
How do you figure that one?? Jacksonville isn't talking about leveling entire swaths of housing all over the city, turning over abandoned areas back to nature, our residents can keep the water on, our crime & murder rate isn't nearly as bad, we aren't burning down housing every night just for kicks, and while we're corrupt, we aren't "Detroit corrupt", and we aren't consistently losing thousands of our population base on a yearly basis. Yes, they have hope, yes downtown is nice & not all of the place is bad, but half of Detroit literally looks like a bomb went off in it. Jax?? Not so much.

Great pics, BTW. But they don't paint the entire picture. I reckon if you went to the truly bad parts that are scattered all over outer Detroit to document, you'd find out real quick that our "bad areas" look like Disney World in comparison. If you even made it out alive.

Bingo! It's just so popular on MJ to make excuses and be so ultra-sensitive for everything that's not local. To compare Jax's screw-ups to Detroit's is like comparing a Little League Team to freaking Major League Baseball! Sure Jax could learn some things from Detroit (and even moreso vice-versa IMO) but being an obligatory Jax masochist greatly fails to cover up Detroit's vast flaws.

strider · October 21, 2014, 03:03:25 PM

Driving around Downtown Detroit gives one the feeling that there is hope more so than driving around Downtown Jacksonville. In addition, while Detroit is losing large percentages of it's population in both it's outer urban areas and suburbs, Jacksonville is gaining population in it's part-of-the-whole-city suburbs. Yes, whole blocks in Detroit seemed to have been taken to or be destined for the dump, but they seem to be mostly outside of the Grand Blvd loop. So, I think the valid comparison is downtown to downtown. A large plus is that Detroit is putting in street car (up Woodward by the college). It has a functioning monorail (People Mover), what seems to be a better public transportation system and at least in the core, both old buildings and new ones are being worked on. As to the corruption, yes, on the surface Detroit seems far worse in that regard than Jacksonville...until you realize how many millions went through Jacksonville in the last decade or so and how little we the public benefited from it. I also fear that we the public have yet to expose everything going on here while Detroit seems to have been pretty well exposed already, IE: Detroit's story has been mostly told, ours, perhaps not so much. Yet.

Overall, I agree that Jacksonville must appear worse than Detroit does to the average visitor. All of this must of course be somewhat tempered by the fact that Detroit was a much larger proper city than Jacksonville ever was or is. And that this is simply an opinion of an Average Joe.

sheclown · October 21, 2014, 03:12:47 PM

True. I did not explore some area.

My opinion is based on the fact that Detroit does have a downtown. And they are adding rail lines as we speak.

Jax has none of the above.

sheclown · October 21, 2014, 06:00:35 PM

I-10east · October 21, 2014, 10:50:10 PM

Youtube "Detroit ghettos" or "Detroit abandoned skyscrapers" and endless videos will pop up. Merely showing 'ideal pictures' of a city is painting a false environment; It's propaganda-esque, like the equivalent of showing Jax during One Spark and saying that it's like that all of the time. Detroit has 'more hope' than Jax, okay...Jax's downtown can easily recover from it's downfalls, but Detroit will never be the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRwJQXCyE38

strider · October 22, 2014, 08:38:29 AM

To be honest, when we first decided to make Detroit part of this trip I started stating that we were going to Detroit before there was no longer a Detroit to see. That was based on all of the hype of the You Tube videos and the various reports I have read. But even the preservationist in me understands that some of that destruction must happen. My home town of Youngstown, Ohio has been struggling for decades. Today entire neighborhoods are gone. More are to be leveled. Why? They simply do not need the housing nor will they in any stretch of the imagination for the next 60 to 100 years. What else are they to do? All we preservationists can hope for is that during the process they find a way to a reasonable plan to preserve as much as sensible and to do the demolitions properly and in a way that will encourage solid new construction when it is needed again. Detroit is in the same basic position but they also have a better base to build back from. As I stated, we are comparing actual Downtown to Downtown here, not the 'burbs, old or new.

That video, change the Detroit to Jacksonville and it would be just as accurate. Except that we have a tendency to take down buildings rather than let them sit.

Yes, Detroit will not be the same city in 20 years that it was 60 years ago. I think that is a positive. Cities should change. The problem I see in Jacksonville is that given better economics, hundreds of million in Federal funds and where are we? Yes, we are not the city were were 60 years ago either. But we seem to be stuck in this time loop and not moving forward. Detroit is indeed moving forward and will surpass Jacksonville before you know it.

Detroit never being the same is a good thing. Wanna bet that Jacksonville will indeed be the same as it is now in 20 years? Unless we find a way to smarter leadership, I'll win that bet hands down.

sheclown · October 22, 2014, 08:48:06 AM

Ideal pictures?

What would be my agenda for doing so?

Like I said, I was pleasantly surprised by Detroit. I was hoping to illustrate that.

So shoot me.

I-10east · October 22, 2014, 09:45:41 AM

Quote from: strider on October 22, 2014, 08:38:29 AM
Unless we find a way to smarter leadership, I'll win that bet hands down.

While Jax has struggled with leadership problems, atleast we maintained to stay as a functioning city(utilities, schools etc) which can't be said the same for Detroit. The far left politics has pushed Detroit backwards into an apocalyptic realm. That's why I like some things about both political parties here and there, and not liberalism gone amuck.

Jacksonville has maintained it's key companies, while many have left Detroit; Cadillac to NYC, Comerica to Dallas etc etc. I hope that I'm wrong, but whose to say that it's only a matter of time before the big three (GM, Ford, and Chrysler) head off to NYC, Chicago somewhere?

I-10east · October 22, 2014, 09:57:59 AM

^^^There hasn't been a Detroit Republican in office since 1962, the golden age of industry and auto boom (which the latter you think is bad, I know...) I'm no freaking conservative apologist, but let's get real here.. Does Kwame Kilpatrick not ring a bell?

I-10east · October 22, 2014, 10:09:36 AM

^^^So now you are blaming presidents? I would mention NAFTA, but that's way too easy...So just forget about the local level of politics...You sound like Micheal Moore. I'm NOT a Republican, no matter how you try to label me as that. I don't have any allegiance to democrats or republicans...

I-10east · October 22, 2014, 10:19:32 AM

Quote from: stephendare on October 22, 2014, 10:13:45 AM
Do you have anything else to add to the subject of Downtown Revitalization in Detroit?

So saying "Detroit is better than Jax" 100 times (even when no one said anything bad about Detroit) is adding something? Give me a break..

strider · October 22, 2014, 11:27:42 AM

The entire point of this thread was that Detroit inspires hope in its Downtown while Jacksonville? Not so much.

I say that from seeing both the negatives and the positives in Detroit and while back in Jacksonville, I still see stagnation.

Downtown Detroit is moving forward better than Downtown Jacksonville is, just a fact.

thelakelander · October 22, 2014, 11:51:27 AM

I'm pretty familiar with both. Yes, Detroit certainly has its issues but their primary focus (especially the business community) appears to be in enhancing their heart (and growing out from that) and the revitalization of their downtown is a living testament to that. The streetcar project, several redevelopment projects, paying young professionals to locate along the Woodward corridor are things that are all privately driven.

This does not appear to be Jax's true priority (publicly or private sector) and what our downtown environment is today, is living proof of this as well. Nevertheless, this observation should not be taken as playing cities against each other or crucifying Jax at the expense of promoting another community. It's nothing more than a random observation on one of many issues that American cities are dealing with and addressing in different ways.