Ayn Rand Speaks Against the Religious Right in Favor of Conservatism.

[stephendare]

This is the best defence and explanation of rational conservatism that I have ever heard.

I wonder what our board conservatives make of this speech?

http://www.youtube.com/v/oTf6NK0wsiA

[JeffreyS]

Great videos of a wise woman.  How many Americans can grasp that faith and tradition are not reasonable arguments for capitalism or conservatism. That being new isn't a good argument for liberalism. Science, reason  and even morality will support or discredit traditions and new ideas.

[JeffreyS]

I think people are blown away.

[Driven1]

i think it is more of a vote of insignificance...

from Wikipedia...

Ayn Rand... vociferously opposed socialism, altruism, and other contemporary philosophical trends, as well as religion.  ...
Altruism is an ethical doctrine that holds that individuals have a moral obligation to help, serve, or benefit others, if necessary at the sacrifice of self interest.

[Driven1]

It literally sickens my stomach to realize how far away the republicans and the neofascists have come from true conservatism.

yes, you are the face of true conservatism.  true conservatism hates capitalism.  it is also not rooted actually in conserving anything.  rather it is rooted in an "evolving idea" of what the constitution is.  yes, in true conservatism, pluralism is king and nothing is absolute.  

[Driven1]

It literally sickens my stomach to realize how far away the republicans and the neofascists have come from true conservatism.

yes, you are the face of true conservatism.  true conservatism hates capitalism.  it is also not rooted actually in conserving anything.  rather it is rooted in an "evolving idea" of what the constitution is.  yes, in true conservatism, pluralism is king and nothing is absolute. 

wow.  do you EVER know what you are talking about?  Ayn Rand is the high Priestess of Capitalism.  But you would have to read books to know that.

um...that would be Ann Coulter thank you very much.  plus, she looks better.

[jaxnative]

Rand was a committed atheist and an extreme individualist.  Her use of the word "faith" and the following remark on religions place in society would be of no surprise.  From this short clip I'm not sure if she is speaking of conservatives in general or a certain division of the movement.  I agree, in general, with Rand that blind dependence on tradition OR a new idea for it's own sake is irrational.  I tend to disagree somewhat on her assertion that depending on tradition is more irrational.  Most tradition is an accumulation of wisdom that new ideas should be measured against.  What would be irrational is throwing away the new idea or blindly accepting it without measuring it's worth against against the old.  I see no problem with promoting and upholding  capitalism from a purely intellectual viewpoint and don't see a large problem, in general, from either party other than disagreement on the degrees of government interference and control. 

In Ayn Rand's intellectual worldview pure laissez-faire capitalism would be the rule.

As a side note, I found it very interesting that Rand's short novel, Anthem, written and published in England in 1937, and reflecting her horror at a social collectivist society, was refused publication in the United States.

[RiversideGator]

I must say that it is amusing to see that Stephen posted simultaneous threads on WF Buckley and on Ayn Rand claiming alternatively that they are both true conservatives.  This is funny because Buckley helped to drum Rand out of the conservative movement by defining conservatism in such a way that fringe groups like the Rand supporters or the John Birch Society were really not included.  Not only were these groups bad associates politically but they were at odds with traditional conservative thought.  If you are looking for the intellectual roots of conservatism, read Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke.

So, in short, Ayn Rand was a disagreeable, libertarian atheist who was in no way conservative.  Frankly, I have always been puzzled that people were attracted to this very strange individual.

[RiversideGator]

Here is as good a shorthand definition of traditional conservatism as you will find, courtesy of Russell Kirk:

Kirk developed six "canons" of conservatism, which Russello (2004) described as follows:

   1. A belief in a transcendent order, which Kirk described variously as based in tradition, divine revelation, or natural law;
   2. An affection for the "variety and mystery" of human existence;
   3. A conviction that society requires orders and classes that emphasize "natural" distinctions;
   4. A belief that property and freedom are closely linked;
   5. A faith in custom, convention, and prescription, and
   6. A recognition that innovation must be tied to existing traditions and customs, which entails a respect for the political value of prudence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Kirk

[RiversideGator]

Stephen:  I just explained to you the roots of conservatism and Rand aint it.  She is at best a weird off shoot of the movement.  But, I think that instead she was on a totally different path. 

As for the politicians, I think it is important to distinguish between the conservative thinkers and intellectuals and the Republican politicians.  First, it is easy to be pure if you never have to get elected.  Second, to get elected you have to pander to the uneducated masses.  And finally, not all Republican politicians (or even most probably) are Buckley/Kirk/etc. conservatives.

[Driven1]

I can see how you would identify with Ms Coulter and not know who the hell Ayn Rand is.

But I guess you are somehow, magically an authority on conservative ideas.

That explains quite a bit. 

And let me hazard a guess that your still to thick to have listened to her speech.

nice.

http://www.youtube.com/v/LKCZ8-ZAT88

i heard Jamie Lee Curtis was originally born with both male and female parts.  Can anyone confirm this?

[second_pancake]

So, in short, Ayn Rand was a disagreeable, libertarian atheist who was in no way conservative.  Frankly, I have always been puzzled that people were attracted to this very strange individual.

Wow. I really dont' know where the hell this thread is going.

For the record, I have to agree with RG in this quote that Rand was not a "conservative" as we define it politically.  She seperated herself from the conservatives and the liberals.  She was her own being and had her own ideals and philosophy....both politically and socially.  She was an Objectivist.  Her principals were merely that a man must be true to himself...be completely selfish in every action he takes based on logical and rational thought.  Conservatism's base is rooted in illogical reglious ideals.  There is little reason to why conservatives believe something should be one way and not the other save for the fact that it's just how they 'feel' it should be...usually because God says so.

She may well be defined as a fiscal consersative, but socially, her views could be summed up by saying, every man for himself.  But, that statement should not be confused with the use of force in order for someone to forge a path in his/her life as she was a strong opponent to the use of force in any way...this would not be a truely selfish path to take as it would only end in the demise of the individual who made the concious choice to use force.

As for your comment, RG, that she was "disagreeable", there are a great many masses in this country that not only believe in the principles she taught, but who LIVE by them.  She may not have been your style, but then again, you're a member of the religious-right so I would expect nothing less from you.

[second_pancake]

Btw, Driven, I can confidently say (having been a student and current firm believer in Objectivism), if Ms. Rand were alive today, she would not associate herself with the likes of Ann Coulter.  Ann is the direct opposite of reason, logic, rationality and selfishness. 

[Driven1]

like i said, i heard JLC was a hermaphrodite at birth...can anyone confirm this?

[second_pancake]

like i said, i heard JLC was a hermaphrodite at birth...can anyone confirm this?

I think we all understand the point you're trying to make, however, there is written record of Ayn Rand's thoughts, ideas and beliefs. This is how I, or anyone familiar with her, can make statements about her even though we've never been in the same room with her.  If there are the same type of written records regarding the state of JLC's genitalia at birth, then we would all be talking about penial-va-jay-jay.