A mildly crazy idea to help boost foot traffic in the urban core

[mtraininjax]

The Farmer's market is located in 32209, with 32206 and 32202 (the city's poorest zip code) close. All these very poor with low income make building a new farmer's market a virtual impossibility, unless someone has millions sitting in a slush fund needing to burn the hole through their pocket. Nothing new will happen in areas that have no real income growth prospects.

That is not to say that Brooklyn or LaVilla could not see something, as they begin to in-fill, but my bet is that if you are going to see something like what you should from Columbus, it would either be at the Beach, near Durbin or at the very least, San Marco. People who go to the Blanding or Beach Flea Markets are not the core customers of an urban market.

As a last resort, someone may make a pitch to Regency Square Mall to do something like this, as new homes go up in Arlington, this might be an attractive location for a mini-version or starter market, to test the waters.

[IrvAdams]

Of all those locations, I live closest to Regency Square area, and have watched its decline over the years. There are endless suggestions floating around for its future, and last I heard the current owners want to keep it a retail mall similar to what you have now.

Everybody in this general area is totally automobile-oriented, we automatically hop in our car to go anywhere. So where people like myself shop is not really neighborhood dependent as much as choice or variety dependent. And of course, convenience and ease of access dependent.

My point is that there are quite a number of nomadic shoppers who will converge on a location, no matter where it is, if the variety and access is good, like the RAM in Riverside - this is 12 miles or more from my house.

Building something in an area that doesn't seem to have enough rooftops or existing population can attract migrating bargain hunters. Build it and they will hopefully come.

[mtraininjax]

Building something in an area that doesn't seem to have enough rooftops or existing population can attract migrating bargain hunters. Build it and they will hopefully come.

Businesses do not operate with a "hope they will come", any business with that attitude is not a business, but rather a charity.

RAM is successful because of the advocates in Riverside Avondale who worked to make it happen. It had the push from RAP and local patrons who were bound and determined to see it through and make it work. Others in Jax have tried to copy it (King Street, Shoppes of Avondale, San Marco), but there is nothing like shopping for organic Jax items under the shade of the bridge with live music and the river as the backdrop. The river is the key, as I see it. Regency would need a hook like the river to get people there, not sure it has it, but some business owner will figure out a way to make it work, or turn it into a parking lot.

[thelakelander]

The Farmer's market is located in 32209, with 32206 and 32202 (the city's poorest zip code) close. All these very poor with low income make building a new farmer's market a virtual impossibility, unless someone has millions sitting in a slush fund needing to burn the hole through their pocket. Nothing new will happen in areas that have no real income growth prospects.

That is not to say that Brooklyn or LaVilla could not see something, as they begin to in-fill, but my bet is that if you are going to see something like what you should from Columbus, it would either be at the Beach, near Durbin or at the very least, San Marco. People who go to the Blanding or Beach Flea Markets are not the core customers of an urban market.

As a last resort, someone may make a pitch to Regency Square Mall to do something like this, as new homes go up in Arlington, this might be an attractive location for a mini-version or starter market, to test the waters.

You should check out the neighborhoods around DC's Union Market. Pretty similar to Beaver Street and vicinity. A mix of food industry, distribution, wholesale businesses adjacent to a historic market. Definitely not Georgetown or Adams Morgan.













surrounding neighborhood:

[mtraininjax]

You should check out the neighborhoods around DC's Union Market. Pretty similar to Beaver Street and vicinity. A mix of food industry, distribution, wholesale businesses adjacent to a historic market. Definitely not Georgetown or Adams Morgan.

Lake - With all DUE respect, comparing Jax to DC is ridiculous. DC is a destination city, Jax is not. It makes all the difference in how tax revenue is collected and spread out. DC has a MUCH bigger pool of revenue to spend on the poorer parts of DC.

If we are going to do comparisons, let's stick with cities similar to Jacksonville in similar character. No capital cities, no destination cities, a real apples to apples comparison, if possible. Simms may be able to shed some light on this as well.

I don't see DT Jax coming back without more residents, and mass businesses will not invest without the residents. No matter what events or facilities are built. Granted Brooklyn is filling in, but at this pace, it could be 10-20 years before it fills in and LaVilla too.

With the Greyhound people balking at moving, no leadership from the mayor to make this happen, Park View stymied too, you get the sense that our downtown is tied to the city leadership, which there is a void at the moment. Just disappointed in the lack of vision with our city leaders for Downtown.

[thelakelander]

Have you visited Union Market?  That area isn't surviving off tourist. Detroit's Eastern Market and the businesses around it are another example. We ought to stop treating Jax as if it's a special case, red headed stepchild of the US. There are many applicable things we can learn and apply locally from a variety of cities from across the country.

[IrvAdams]

^^Absolutely. As a microcosm of this argument, take Chamblin's downtown bookstore. A great idea in a very slow and neglected area. Now it's a destination. People want to make s special trip to look for "that particular book" or just to browse through a unique collection.

They go out of their way to visit an area they wouldn't even have considered previously.

I think if you build something unique and entertaining, they will come. We're an auto-centric population after all, so we have to have a destination.

[vicupstate]

Mtrain, Lake is merely comparing ONE NEIGHBORHOOD, that  no one outside of DC has ever heard of, to the Farmer's Market concept being discussed here. No two cities are exactly alike, and they don't need to be to make comarisons or draw lessons learned.  Lake, maybe a thread on Fargo  or Sioux Falls is in order.

That said, your point about residential is true, Downtown needs more of them, LOTS more.  The city's leadership needs to realize that, and concentrate on that.

[thelakelander]

In the learning from series, Alexandria, VA will run this week and then Fargo will be up.  I'm going to try and get a Vanguard friend, who is a Fargo city councilwoman, to say a few words for that story.

[thelakelander]

Have you visited Union Market?  That area isn't surviving off tourist. Detroit's Eastern Market and the businesses around it are another example. We ought to stop treating Jax as if it's a special case, red headed stepchild of the US. There are many applicable things we can learn and apply locally from a variety of cities from across the country.

More examples are Lexington Market (Baltimore), Westside Market (Cleveland) and Atlanta's market near Sweet Auburn.

[Ocklawaha]

Um? I believe we also have some Dodge City material.

The Farmers Market will not move regardless of the caliber of its surroundings. Lake alluded to the truck issue and the farm-market industry understands very well the rate hike's involved when you move off of railroad accessible property. Cha-Ching!

[Scrub Palmetto]

Have you visited Union Market?  That area isn't surviving off tourist. Detroit's Eastern Market and the businesses around it are another example. We ought to stop treating Jax as if it's a special case, red headed stepchild of the US. There are many applicable things we can learn and apply locally from a variety of cities from across the country.

More examples are Lexington Market (Baltimore), Westside Market (Cleveland) and Atlanta's market near Sweet Auburn.

Also City Market in KC. http://thecitymarket.org/ I know suburbanites here who basically never go Downtown unless they  have to, with the regular exception being the city market. The area is pretty well revitalized, but the market has been a longtime staple of the River Market district, with all of its ups and downs. It hasn't always been a desirable area.

[thelakelander]

Digging into our photo archives....

City Market - Kansas City




Sweet Auburn Curb Market - Atlanta, GA


Eastern Market - Washington, DC


Westside Market - Cleveland, OH


Lexington Market - Baltimore, MD


Eastern Market - Detroit, MI


North Market - Columbus, OH


Findlay Market - Cincinnati, OH


Milwaukee Public Market - Milwaukee, WI

[finehoe]

Have you visited Union Market?  That area isn't surviving off tourist.

Absolutely right.  I'd bet the vast majority of tourists to DC have no idea the Union Market is even there.

http://unionmarketdc.com/

[jaxjaguar]

This seemed to cause a good discussion before... does anyone still like the ideas in this thread for The Landing's redevelopment?