The Jacksonville Landing's Redevelopment Plan

[thelakelander]

Removing the on and off ramps to/from Independent Drive is a good thing....but imo getting rid of the connection to Ocean Street should be a non-starter

If you're going to get rid of the ramps why not just go ahead and get rid of the Ocean St connection?  Making Main St two way again wouldnt be a bad thing.

While making Main a two-way street again, FDOT is most likely not going to agree to reduce the ability to move vehicles on their "six" lane highway.  To do that, COJ would probably have to find a way to take over Main and Ocean, similar to what Miami recently did with Brickell Avenue and Orlando with Edgewater in College Park.

[hightowerlover]

I don't really see why the on-ramps being removed is such a make or break for this current design... seems like they just made a massive parking garage on the bottom that could easily be modified to not require the city to pay to remove the ramps.  I personally think the base of these buildings is out of scale anyways and makes the taller elements look more visually stumpy.

[fieldafm]

Folks, according to Don Redman this project is 7-8 YEARS from completion. The Landing is in his district. He should know.

By that time the Overland Expressway will be completed. 220 Riverside will have a hotel and be thriving as the next Town Center, Shad Khan will have redeveloped the Shipyards by then, the Southside JEA generation station location will have been turned into the most amazing outdoor amphitheatre attended by thousands every year in Jax, downtown will have a US Navy warship docked on the Southside, two mayors and countless ideas on how to hide the mess at the Landing will have come and gone.

Don't get too excited, there was a man named Cameron Kuhn who came to Jacksonville and infected all who would buy into him that he would change downtown.....crickets later and an empty Barnett Bank building later....

Look at Sleiman's strip malls for an idea about the man and his "vision", many have large vacancies. He has trouble in his own pool, what makes him an expert on building something to this degree? His past results do not bode well for future results, IMO.

You really just ?
A) Listened to Don Redman
and
B) Compared Toney Sleiman to Cameron Kuhn (who now sells lunch out of a food cart in downtown Orlando)


BTW, Sleiman Enterprise's vacancy rate is actually low.

[mtraininjax]

BTW, Sleiman Enterprise's vacancy rate is actually low.

LOL,  Come on man, get outside and check out his properties, you know the ones with the little trees on a white sign. They are everywhere, go check out Beach and San Pablo as a good example.

Sleiman has no track record to build and develop what he plans to develop. So this, like the Shipyards, is a shot in the dark with public funds, which no one has discussed yet. Why don't we run the skyway to Mandarin, it sounds practical, it could be nice, but it costs a lot, no, don't discuss the costs, we are just spitballing right now.

I don't agree with Redman all the time, but he does make some realistic remarks on occasion, and since there is no money planned for this, his assessment of 7-8 years sounds realistic, of course, you can use "hope" as a plan and HOPE that the City does not raid the 9 million set aside to the DIA for downtown businesses. How convenient, the city puts 9 million in the fund, and Sleiman comes knocking saying he will tear down the old and in with the new?

Don't be a fool Jacksonville! Wake up and see what is happening. 

[fieldafm]

LOL,  Come on man, get outside and check out his properties, you know the ones with the little trees on a white sign. They are everywhere, go check out Beach and San Pablo as a good example.

Oh, so you know the exact amount of square feet occupied versus vacant based on the signs you see around town.  That seems completey reasonable.

[mtraininjax]

Oh, so you know the exact amount of square feet occupied versus vacant based on the signs you see around town.  That seems completey reasonable.

I can read sign and I can tell the difference between his signs and others. Pretty easy, actually.

We can go on a field trip and I can educate you, if you like.....

[Tacachale]

I guess you could leave the towers and the outer buildings off, but otherwise this plan seems like it would be very hard to do in phases. However, as a preliminary it's definitely a major step in the right direction.

[acme54321]

I don't really see why the on-ramps being removed is such a make or break for this current design... seems like they just made a massive parking garage on the bottom that could easily be modified to not require the city to pay to remove the ramps.  I personally think the base of these buildings is out of scale anyways and makes the taller elements look more visually stumpy.

I don't either really see the major benfit of ramp removal either.

And yes the buildings look weird with such large pedestals.

[fieldafm]

Oh, so you know the exact amount of square feet occupied versus vacant based on the signs you see around town.  That seems completey reasonable.

I can read sign and I can tell the difference between his signs and others. Pretty easy, actually.

We can go on a field trip and I can educate you, if you like.....

You should do that yourself and report back.  I actually know what the numbers are.

[tufsu1]

Removing the on and off ramps to/from Independent Drive is a good thing....but imo getting rid of the connection to Ocean Street should be a non-starter

If you're going to get rid of the ramps why not just go ahead and get rid of the Ocean St connection?  Making Main St two way again wouldnt be a bad thing.

because the Main Street part would only have room for one lane in each direction.  Imagine what the traffic back-ups on the bridge and on Main Street would look like....never mind when the bridge is up.

[tufsu1]

as to the pedestal concerns raised by acme and highertowerlover, let me suggest you look at the condo towers built over the last decade in cities like Vancouver. 

They include a large pedestal composing the whole block but only a few stories tall to keep the pedestrian scale....with a skinny tower sitting on top....this serves two purposes

1. allows maximum sun to make it down to street level (something places like NYC could desperately use)
2. allows for amenities...including small green space, pools, etc. on the top of the pedestal

[I-10east]

I hear some people mentioning tearing down the Main Street Bridge ramps, and making Main St two ways. That will require four lanes throughout (expansion of one lane DT). I get that many don't care about autos, but if a lane expansion isn't done, that DT part of Main would be an awfully congested bottleneck. Does Main even have any room for a lane expansion? Yes 4 lanes, to 3, back to 4 would be really stupid.

[ProjectMaximus]

as to the pedestal concerns raised by acme and highertowerlover, let me suggest you look at the condo towers built over the last decade in cities like Vancouver. 

They include a large pedestal composing the whole block but only a few stories tall to keep the pedestrian scale....with a skinny tower sitting on top....this serves two purposes

1. allows maximum sun to make it down to street level (something places like NYC could desperately use)
2. allows for amenities...including small green space, pools, etc. on the top of the pedestal

Yeah, I was thinking about Vancouver too, having done some research recently about why skyscrapers hinder walkability. So now you get all the benefits while avoiding a few of the negatives.

[hightowerlover]

as to the pedestal concerns raised by acme and highertowerlover, let me suggest you look at the condo towers built over the last decade in cities like Vancouver. 

They include a large pedestal composing the whole block but only a few stories tall to keep the pedestrian scale....with a skinny tower sitting on top....this serves two purposes

1. allows maximum sun to make it down to street level (something places like NYC could desperately use)
2. allows for amenities...including small green space, pools, etc. on the top of the pedestal

Yeah, I was thinking about Vancouver too, having done some research recently about why skyscrapers hinder walkability. So now you get all the benefits while avoiding a few of the negatives.

With all due respect, this is Florida not Vancouver.  No one is complaining about not maximizing sunlight in downtown Jacksonville.  The shade would be a welcome relief. 

Trust me I appreciate having a rooftop deck and pool area for the residents I just don't think this scale looks good.  I'm not saying elimate any sense of a pedestal element, I just think it looks bad as designed/proportioned.  I think the Strand and the Peninsula on the southbank got their pedestals right visually. This just looks weird to me as presented and I hope it evolves again.

[Overstreet]

Removing the off/on ramps......................

I wonder if anybody ran that by FDOT?