The Jacksonville Landing's Redevelopment Plan

[thelakelander]

So nothing is planned for the old Vito's space?

[fieldafm]

^ not if the owner isn't interested in leasing the space

That's not entirely true. They will definitely backfill space to interested parties. If you want a 10-20 year lease, that's another story.

In the past few months, they lost two retailers to the Avenues Mall and one 70+ year old man retired. They aren't kicking people out. Chicago Pizza actually recently completed a small renovation.

[mtraininjax]

Turning the Landing into just another strip mall that happens to be on the water would be a mistake.

The owner of the building is the king of strip malls in NE Florida. Its all he knows. I doubt you get more than a strip mall with racing stripes in the final design.

People who live downtown already travel to the Publix in Riverside and the Fresh Market in Brooklyn. They don't need to be reminded of where to grocery shop, they've waited long enough for a downtown solution. Only way to grow downtown is provide the residents the basic services needed for after 5 pm. This would be the IDEAL time for an Alvin Brown "Public/Private" partnership, but I seriously doubt he has anything but a box of matches as he defends his job.

[vicupstate]

Turning the Landing into just another strip mall that happens to be on the water would be a mistake.

The owner of the building is the king of strip malls in NE Florida. Its all he knows. I doubt you get more than a strip mall with racing stripes in the final design.

People who live downtown already travel to the Publix in Riverside and the Fresh Market in Brooklyn. They don't need to be reminded of where to grocery shop, they've waited long enough for a downtown solution. Only way to grow downtown is provide the residents the basic services needed for after 5 pm. This would be the IDEAL time for an Alvin Brown "Public/Private" partnership, but I seriously doubt he has anything but a box of matches as he defends his job.

I agree that residences come first but it is a catch-22. The retail/grocery won't come until the people are there. The people aren't coming because the retail/grocery isn't there yet.   

[thelakelander]

You could fill downtown with 10,000 residents and it will struggle to fill all of the Landing's 125k square feet of retail. The Landing was built and designed as a regional draw. Unless we're tearing it down and dramatically reducing the amount of leasable square footage, it's going to have to remain a regional draw that pulls people in, outside of just those who live downtown.

[Rob68]

Id rather see the city buy the landing from sleighman. Id rather not hand him any more cash..hes sucked enough from the city...pur some city srrvices and some shopping and a market..mixed use would be better but getting this out of the hands of the stripmall king  would be my primary goal...sorry but its pretty much been a waist of space for years and years...

[vicupstate]

Id rather see the city buy the landing from sleighman. Id rather not hand him any more cash..hes sucked enough from the city...pur some city srrvices and some shopping and a market..mixed use would be better but getting this out of the hands of the stripmall king  would be my primary goal...sorry but its pretty much been a waist of space for years and years...

The problem with that idea is you would have to pay Sleiman what he wants for it, or take it by eminent domain, which would also cost more than it was actually worth.

[urbanlibertarian]

I still think the city should sell him the land underneath the buildings he owns for fair market value if he's willing to pay that and let him do whatever he wants with it while paying full property taxes.  The landing should be privately owned and developed without city interference if we can make that happen.

[vicupstate]

I agree that residences come first but it is a catch-22. The retail/grocery won't come until the people are there. The people aren't coming because the retail/grocery isn't there yet.

But isnt the retail/grocery already here??? It's a 60 second drive to Fresh Market and those shops from downtown.  It's a 10 minute bike ride to Publix and 5 Points.  And the ghetto-Dixie isnt THAT bad if you are in a pinch.  Just because  the Fresh Market/Puiblix/5 Points stores arent right acorss from the library or landing doesnt mean it isnt there.  This seems like lazy thinking-- "Gosh, i cant drive/bike/walk an extra 3 minutes."

Well, the Fresh Market has only recently opened, so whatever impact is will eventually have is only beginning to be felt. Also, Obviously it is a step in the right direction. F.M. is more of a specialty/gourmet market and they don't have all the sundry things that a full size grocer would have.

[jaxjaguar]

MMR, a downtown should be completely walkable / connected. Go to downtown Orlando, Tampa, Miami, Atlanta, pretty much any other mildly successful downtown and you can find a grocery store/s. It helps encourage the lifestyle of not needing to drive, being able to grab something really quick on your way home from work to avoid traffic (residents that only work downtown), gives hotel visitors a place to walk to for snacks or cheaper pre-made meals. 

I think an urban market would fair really well or the farmers market, if they weren't so set on being in their current location. But at this point, I would be willing to accept any major affordable grocer. My dream scenario would be to: walk across the street to the skyway, be dropped off in-front of a grocer, buy my things for the next 2-3 days, hop back on the skyway to get home.

In the scenario above I could do what many downtown residents in other cities do... get rid of my car. I would be able to live, work, have medical appointments, shop and play without driving anywhere.

[thelakelander]

^Tampa has a DT grocery store other than the Five Points style Publix (across the Hillsborough River)? I think the best possibility of your dream scenario happening is having a skyway station across the street from Brooklyn's Fresh Market. BRT should help as well. Transit should also be improved between the existing farmers market and the DT core. Years ago, I thought the Beaver Street market should have been relocated but it plays an important role in an area of the urban core than has been largely forgotten.....in the same manner Eastern Market plays in Detroit. Anyway, I mention these because it will be years, before the Northbank can support a full line grocery outside of the few that are already operating. While a full line grocery may not be realistic, given our market conditions, it's ripe for something like a CVS or Walgreens. It would be great to have something like that in or within a block or two of the Landing.

[jaxjaguar]

The one in Tampa is more like grassroots in 5-Points, but they are slightly more affordable / carry more premade items (sandwiches, desserts, etc) similar to Fresh Market. It's just another option I think would be suited for the street level shops we have available.

http://duckweedurbanmarket.com/

[hiddentrack]

If we ever see a significant increase in downtown residents, I would prefer seeing smaller stores that lean a little more toward the grocery side than a CVS or Walgreens, but still stock the essentials. One large store servicing a wider area wouldn't be as beneficial as a couple smaller stores that sit within walking distance. Size-wise, I was just reading about Green Zebra (http://www.greenzebragrocery.com) the other day, and from the photos there, they look just right.

[JimInJax]

I.M.O they just need to focus on The Shipyards. Spending money on The Landing seems like a waste at this point.

Last time I was there, the biggest request of shoppers would have been beer and rolling papers. The facility had been taken over by homeless people and thugs.

Fionn McCools seems to me like the only one keeping that place going, or MAYBE Mavericks.

[thelakelander]

The Landing is in the heart of downtown. The shipyards is an isolated site with little connectivity to the rest of core (outside of Bay Street and the riverwalk). Placing primary on the Shipyards is like focusing on the Prime Osborn.....in terms of stimulating a true walkable core. You have to get your center right, and the Landing is sitting dab smack dead in the middle of the center.