Reinvigorating the Jacksonville Landing

[I-10east]

^^Yawn to you also... Sorry for having an opinion that isn't yours. That's what make people different you know, personalities!!!

[I-10east]

^^^That's the misconception that I 'regurgitate an opinion over and over' but that's not true, and doing that is very boring to me. It's actually vice-versa with you and people like Simms rebutting everything that I say, thus saying the same thing over and over. When talking with Field, I learned thoroughly about the Landing's first would-be 'part the river' phase, and gave my opinion for the FIRST time in understanding that proposal, but of course you butt in like always....I was totally over that conversation, until you brought it up again, which is very repetitive in itself; I get it, you disagree with me, okay you already said that in the past. Being 'redundant' is subjective; I probably can spout off with a green energy topic every two days, and you won't say that I'm being 'redundant'.   

[kbhanson3]

Some things I took away from the meeting:

1.  Great to see so many people at the meeting sharing opinions.  You never see that many people at a public meeting unless they are opposing something.  This was the reverse.  All showed up to support something.

2.  The plan needs more residential.  And the density should be as high as practical, and it should be "workforce" product.  I couldn't tell if there is any residential in phase 1 or not.

3.  I would like to see more of the parking in the form of angled onstreet parking and less in the form of large surface lots.  One thing all of the successful urban retail districts in Jacksonville have in common is the presence of onstreet parking.

Workforce housing would require significant government subsidy to make the economics of dense, urban construction viable.  Hard to imagine public support for that in this town....

[thelakelander]

I can't imagine workforce housing happening on the riverfront without massive public subsidies either. It would seem that the old City Hall Annex would be more suitable for that, since it's a structurally city owned high-rise already standing.

I had a early tip about what the proposal would be, so what I saw wasn't as shocking initially to me.  I didn't stay the entire time but it didn't appear that there was much criticism from the crowd. 

I'm not opposed to tearing down the mall portion although I believe the structure is salvageable and could easily be reconfigured but it's clear he wants his dedicated parking and we've failed to properly resolve that issue for +25 years. That Parador garage should be large enough to handled everyone's parking, so we could eliminate all the surface lots in the immediate vicinity, IMO.

After mulling this over a little more, my major concerns would be:

1. Pedestrian movement - I'm not sure it's a good idea to make the Laura Street roundabout the main vehicular entrance. That kills what should be a pretty interactive and pedestrian friendly space because all the pavers in the world aren't going to reduce the flow of cars using it. It also effectively pulls the possibility of outdoor dining from the street. It's a suburban vehicular solution in an urban setting and the vibe from the street would be no different than that of many strip malls with restaurants lining A1A in Jax Beach.

2. The treatment of Hogan Street, south of Independent is pretty underwhelming. It seems there would be opportunity to make it more of an interactive space. Although, the second phase would help with this issue somewhat. Yet, because there's no timeline associated with what was presented last night, it's hard to determine what will truly take place.

Overall, I think with the initial layout and the Parador garage, we've completely screwed up what should be one of the better intersections for foot traffic in the Northbank.

3. COJ needs to work with the owners of the Suntrust Tower and Wells Fargo Center to better integrate their ground levels with Laura Street. I'm not sure this plan of opening the courtyard up to Laura Street will accomplish much (outside of creating a view corridor of a parking lot entrance with some blue in the background) for helping spread redevelopment up Laura.

4. We need to figure out if we can get approval from FDOT to simply remove the on and off ramps to Independent Drive from Main Street. Doing anything with the Main and Ocean ramps would be more difficult to accomplish any time soon. If the Independent Drive ramps were gone, there would be an opportunity to reconfigure the area around the bridge for parking, which may free up space for better pedestrian scale interactivity with Independent Drive between Laura and Hogan Streets.

[thelakelander]

Workshop: A better Landing is vital to improving downtown

The name of Monday's night's workshop on The Jacksonville Landing was "Making waves, realizing a world-class waterfront."

And that theme came up often, starting with Mayor Alvin Brown talking about his desire to make Jacksonville a world-class city.

"Can you imagine a Macy's, Lord & Taylor and Saks downtown," he said. "Can you see a 24-hour downtown Jacksonville?"

"The Landing is the key," he said,

full article: http://members.jacksonville.com/business/2013-12-09/story/workshop-better-landing-vital-improving-downtown

[CG7]

I stayed for the entire meeting, and though there was a lot of patting on the back for this plan. there was enough criticism of the density and ho hum architecture (and those damn parking lots), that hopefully they will get back to the drawing board and come up with something Jacksonville deserves...This is not it.

[PeeJayEss]

I am confident Sleiman and the city can pull off demolishing the majority of the Landing. I'm just not so sold that they'll rebuild anything in its place after.

Is it really impossible for them to cut the front building down the middle and use what's left of it? Seems like the City's backing will mean this will be much more expensive but not substantially better.

"Can you imagine a Macy's, Lord & Taylor and Saks downtown," he said. "Can you see a 24-hour downtown Jacksonville?"

Dear God. It is amazing that this is the best we can do for leadership. Large department stores are certainly the future! Nothing says 24 hours like a business that takes up a full city block and closes at 8pm.

[I-10east]

I am confident Sleiman and the city can pull off demolishing the majority of the Landing. I'm just not so sold that they'll rebuild anything in its place after.

I agree. There's literally nothing added in phase one, only huge parts of the building being demoed. Even the very thing which is supposedly gonna revitalize the Landing (the breezeway) is nothing. To be honest, that proposal is very saddening IMO.

[Tacachale]

Well, if the Mayor is convinced that this is his ticket to a downtown Macys or Winn-Dixie or whatever, Sleiman can probably count on getting everything he wants and more. So long as it doesn't appear to be a new tax, of course.

[tlemans]

I think the Landing could take a Que from Pointe Orlando and of course a parking garage that will give more people a place to park and draw a bigger crowd. I think the right mix of restaurants, retail and a better variety of entertainment would draw a crowd. The restaurants, retail and entertainment currently available is mediocre. I visited Bayside Marketplace in Miami this year and it is like night and day compared to the Landing. People here in Jacksonville are looking for things to do here especially on the weekend. The Town Center and River City Marketplace are great but what a wonderful addition it would be for a Jacksonville Landing that is up to par.

[fieldafm]

Even the very thing which is supposedly gonna revitalize the Landing (the breezeway) is nothing.

Opening the Landing courtyard to the street is actually very important.  Right now, the building literally turns its back to Laura Street. 

Lake is right, using the roundabout as an entryway to a parking lot pretty much cuts off the very thing you are looking to accomplish with opening up the courtyard.... activating a pedestrian-centric interaction with the surrounding streets. 

However, I am less gloomy than others... I think some simple reconfigurations of the proposed parking lots can still open up areas that allow for outdoor dining opportunities and flexible space for events that interacts very well with Laura/Independent/Hogan/Water.

[Bridges]

Not at the Jeff Speck meeting this morning, but maybe someone will ask him about the design of the Landing and it's enhancement of walkability.  Especially a new parking lot with a roundabout entrance way in the middle of downtown.   

[I-10east]

Opening the Landing courtyard to the street is actually very important.  Right now, the building literally turns its back to Laura Street.

Even the most ardent supporter of that proposal has to realize that this is more about a 'hopeful' phase two; Phase one is more about renovating the 'gateway' for newcomers. Channel 4 is talking about this, with social media concerning on whether phase one would attract them to the Landing; That talk on social media should be very interesting, I'll be very surprised to hear alot of positive responses. 

[Tacachale]

Even the very thing which is supposedly gonna revitalize the Landing (the breezeway) is nothing.

Opening the Landing courtyard to the street is actually very important.  Right now, the building literally turns its back to Laura Street. 

Lake is right, using the roundabout as an entryway to a parking lot pretty much cuts off the very thing you are looking to accomplish with opening up the courtyard.... activating a pedestrian-centric interaction with the surrounding streets. 

However, I am less gloomy than others... I think some simple reconfigurations of the proposed parking lots can still open up areas that allow for outdoor dining opportunities and flexible space for events that interacts very well with Laura/Independent/Hogan/Water.

This is my concern even more than adding more empty lots downtown: if the entryway doesn't improve pedestrian access to the courtyard from Laura Street, it's not worth doing, and it's certainly not worth any city subsidies. Hopefully that's an element that can be fixed while the whole thing is still on nice, cheap paper.

My is that if Brown thinks this will get him his Macy's, this thing will get pushed right along without much further scrutiny or planning. We all saw what the DDRB was willing to do for that silly Parador garage - which should have included the Landing's parking already.

[KenFSU]

What scares me the most is the mayor's fundamental lack of understanding of what it takes to land something like a downtown Macy's (which have been rapidly closing for years) or an NBA team (which might realistically require a near complete demolition of our ten-year-old arena).

Macy's isn't touching downtown Jacksonville with a fifty-foot pole unless we have something like this in the can:

Macy's, Bloomingdale's to open at downtown Miami Worldcenter
December 8th, 2013

Miami's cachet as an international shopping Mecca is taking a quantum leap forward.

Macy's and Bloomingdale's unveiled plans to open new stores at Miami Worldcenter, the outsized, mixed-use project planned for downtown's Park West district, which is west of Biscayne Boulevard across from AmericanAirlines Arena.

Macy's Inc., the parent of both retailing heavyweights, expects by late 2016 to open a 195,000-square-foot Macy's and a 120,000-square-foot Bloomingdale's, anchoring three levels of retail comprising another 425,000 square feet.

The Forbes Company and Taubman Centers Inc., two prominent regional mall developers, formed a joint venture to develop the urban mall on a 10-acre site it is acquiring from Miami Worldcenter Associates.

Miami Worldcenter Associates, headed by Nitin Motwani and Art Falcone, is the master developer overseeing the redevelopment of some 27 acres of prime downtown property that currently includes parking lots, night clubs, an art house and a tech accelerator. Earlier development efforts had stalled during the real estate crash, but the venture has since gained momentum.

The working name for the shopping center is The Mall at Miami Worldcenter.

"Our hopes are to break ground in late 2014," said Nathan Forbes, managing partner of Forbes, based in Southfield, Mich.

Forbes said the site for the mall — which stretches from NE Seventh Street to NE 10th Street between First Avenue and Second Avenue — is especially choice. "Direct access to I-395 and I-95 gives it a regional draw," Forbes said. "The arts and entertainment and cultural activities are adjacent ... the Performing Arts Center, the art museum and science museum. All the trips traversing this site, we think provide a great opportunity. They add to the draw of this downtown node for redevelopment."

"Both will be significant stores showcasing the importance of downtown Miami," said Motwani, who predicted much more lies ahead for Miami Worldcenter, including pedestrian-friendly residential, retail and hospitality.

The long-expected announcement from Macy's comes as Miami's downtown is enjoying an enviable spate of new development that is transforming the once-stagnant area into a vibrant work-live-play center.

Alyce Robertson, executive director of Miami's Downtown Development Authority, said young professionals who have moved to recently built condominiums have spawned "demand for quality retail" and "corporations are realizing this is the place to be."

The Miami Worldcenter project is particularly exciting, she added, because "that part of downtown has been depressed for decades. It's a shot in the arm."

The Miami Worldcenter is already slated to get a Marriott Marquis World Convention Center Hotel on nearly five acres west of the newly unveiled retail project. A nearby Florida East Coast train station, part of the plans for All Aboard Florida rail service that will connect downtown Miami to Orlando, would also boost the visibility of the site.

In May, Miami developer MDM Development said it has a contract to purchase the old Miami Arena site for the privately financed convention center with a huge 1,800-room hotel above it. An outside spokesman for MDM on Wednesday reiterated it "has a contract to purchase the former Miami Arena site and will soon be moving forward with our plans for a hotel and convention center."

He added: "The exciting announcement about Macy's and Bloomingdale's anchoring Miami Worldcenter's retail component, coupled with our plans for a hotel and convention center, and Florida East Coast's plans for its train station, further positions Miami Worldcenter as not only downtown Miami's most compelling urban development, but one of our nation's most important and largest urban renewal developments."

Plans for the new Macy's and Bloomingdale's at the northern edge of the Central Business District come as Miami's urban core is already abuzz with other plans for major retail development. In January, Swire Properties Inc. and Bal Harbour Shops unveiled plans to jointly develop 500,000 square feet of luxury shops at Swire's Brickell City Centre, a huge mixed-use project under construction in downtown Miami. That retail venture is scheduled to open in the third quarter of 2015 along with condominiums and a hotel.

Meanwhile, developer Craig Robins is going full throttle on plans for a major luxury retail destination in Miami's once-shabby Design District; some designer shops have already opened there.

Even with the spate of new retail on the horizon downtown, those involved in the Miami Worldcenter project are bullish.

Motwani said: "This will be the first time Bloomingdale's has a presence in downtown Miami ... and we're excited to keep Macy's in downtown and part of a larger state-of-the-art facility to save downtown."

Jim Sluzewski, Macy's Inc.'s senior vice president for corporate communications, said the company hasn't yet decided on the future of the Flagler Street Macy's store. "We aren't making any final decision at this point. We have a lease to the spring of 2018. As the next two years unfold, we'll figure out what we're going to do," Sluzewski said.

Macy's future on Flagler Street has been in question since 2007 when Julie Greiner, who at the time was Macy's Florida chairwoman, chastised city leaders for the rundown conditions in the downtown area and threatened that Macy's might leave.