What Would You Like Downtown Jacksonville to Become?

[fieldafm]

I think the City spending any money on the USS Adams would be a waste of time and resources.  If the Adams group can't raise the money needed by themselves privately (and they haven't even come close after years of trying), then taxpayers certainly shouldn't be subsidizing the effort.

That's the kind of one-trick poney mentality that has doomed downtown for decades.

[Kerry]

Let me correct that for you...

Property is too expensive for what you get and the cost of getting that overpriced property up to code is a deal killer at current rental rates.

Create an area people want to live in and market rates will move up.  For all the real and perceived negatives of living downtown - residential is running at 96% occupancy.  All Jacksonville needs is for some local developers to break out of their suburban mindsets.  In another city that I have been involved with downtown developers are treated like rock stars.  The have guest appearance on local radio stations, do web chats through the local newspaper, are recognized out on the street, and have their own vocal fan base.  They got that way by transforming the city.  Jacksonville needs developers like that.

[thelakelander]

Create an area people want to live in and market rates will move up.  For all the real and perceived negatives of living downtown - residential is running at 96% occupancy.

The majority of that is subsidized. Attracting residents to downtown isn't the problem. The problem is finding people willing to set their money on fire to allow that to happen for the greater good of the community. To create that environment, we'll need to figure out how to resolve the financial gap that keeps the private sector heading to places like King Street, Five Points, Hendricks Avenue and the Southside as opposed to seriously considering DT.  This is one of the reasons, you probably shouldn't be in a mad rush to tear down abandoned publicly owned buildings like the old city hall building. That's a structure that might make more sense leveraging for adaptive reuse, than spending millions to demolish and seed with grass.

All Jacksonville needs is for some local developers to break out of their suburban mindsets.  In another city that I have been involved with downtown developers are treated like rock stars.  The have guest appearance on local radio stations, do web chats through the local newspaper, are recognized out on the street, and have their own vocal fan base.  They got that way by transforming the city.  Jacksonville needs developers like that.

Developers will invest where they stand to make money. Many of the same developers building in Jax's burbs also have investments in the core areas of other communities. We'll need to find ways to plug the financing gaps as well as take advantage of the assets in place and people already living in close proximity of DT in the short term.

[Kerry]

We'll need to find ways to plug the financing gaps as well as take advantage of the assets in place and people already living in close proximity of DT in the short term.

Any idea how to do that.  OKC uses TIF funding to cover that gap and it appears to have worked very well.  A major downtown project is announced there about once a month.  Some of the more recent developments have said they don't even need the TIF funding now.  Does downtown Jax have a TIF district?

[simms3]

I think the City spending any money on the USS Adams would be a waste of time and resources.  If the Adams group can't raise the money needed by themselves privately (and they haven't even come close after years of trying), then taxpayers certainly shouldn't be subsidizing the effort.

That's the kind of one-trick poney mentality that has doomed downtown for decades.

I think I agree with this.  Seems everything like this is privately funded elsewhere, though the City may allow the non-profit to dock its ship along its land so long as group pays for costs, upkeep, insurance, and marketing.

[icarus]

What happens if the group can't pay for the upkeep (will ticket sales really keep pace)? How much of the waterfront will be taken up by the ship that could be used for other purposes? I think I'd rather see a marina or public access/ramp.

I have a lot of respect for the Navy and its role in Jax but I am not sure the USS Adams is the panacea some think it to be.

[thelakelander]

^I thought the USS Adams was being sold as a privately funded project?  Has that changed?  I'd love to see them be able to successfully pull it off privately but it kind of works like horse carriage rides and duck tours. These types of things are most successful when they're added to environments that already have a lot of pedestrian activity.  Alone, they tend to struggle. 

We'll need to find ways to plug the financing gaps as well as take advantage of the assets in place and people already living in close proximity of DT in the short term.

Any idea how to do that.  OKC uses TIF funding to cover that gap and it appears to have worked very well.  A major downtown project is announced there about once a month.  Some of the more recent developments have said they don't even need the TIF funding now.  Does downtown Jax have a TIF district?

There are two in DT. The Northbank's is in the red and the Southbank's generates roughly $1.5 million per year.  The last couple of years, there was no project identified for the Southbank, so the council took that money and used it in the general fund.

As for how to take advantage of certain things...

Residents in neighboring communities - invest in improving multimodal connectivity between downtown and surrounding neighborhoods. Everything from better local bus service, BRT, streetcar, Skyway operations, bike lanes, multiuse paths and bike share should be game here.  In the short term (0-2 years), you can coordinate land use policy around Skyway stations to encourage development. You can also modify bus operations to have BRT style routes operating between downtown and adjacent popular districts like Five Points, Park n King, San Marco Square, etc. You can also restripe existing roadways to enhance bike connectivity and safety in the area.

This essentially means acknowledging that mobility/connectivity is an essential ingredient to the success of downtown and the urban core. In the long term (+2 years), put the PCT trolley idea in its grave and realize the validity of fixed transit as an economic development tool. Funding can be achieved in several ways.  Certain components could be included in the CRA. However, you can also take advantage of initiatives like the Mobility Fee and JTA's ability to win federal money.

Anyway, the goal here would be to get those residents using these facilities to travel between each other. For example, you could work at UF Health and live in San Marco. You could live in Springfield and enjoy a meal in Five Points.  You could reside in San Marco and enjoy a night out on the town in Downtown.  You could work in Downtown and live in Durkeeville without being forced to drive an automobile or pay $100 a month for parking.

With downtown sitting in the middle, the increased connectivity and visibility along these corridors will create economic development opportunity along the entire path, which downtown just happens to be a major part of. In the long run, you end up with one large unified urban district.  Kind of in the manner where you can walk from Back Bay to the North End in Boston and not even realize you've gone through multiple neighborhoods, outside of the change in architectural styles of the buildings.

Existing Assets - This one is pretty simple. Focus in the short term on improving them as opposed to worrying about properties like the JEA parcel.  It's not as "sexy" as a Disneyland at the Shipyards or a zip line over the river but quick change can be accomplished for less money by getting places like Hemming Plaza right or better exposing existing retail to the street.  How do you fund them?  Take the same millions you'd earmark for demolishing the old city hall annex and apply it to a ton of less costly, low hanging fruit items sitting out there. On the Southbank, you still have $1.5 million annually coming in to incrementally improve that side of the river.  Use it in a way, which increases property values over the long run....meaning you'll end up with more money annually to continue to reinvest.

Plugging Financial Gaps - This is the one they hired Wallace to play a leading role.  There's a variety of options here as well. Everything from incentives, to tax credits, land deals, etc. could be at play. Much of this should probably be looked at on an individual project basis.  You could also steal a page out of Detroit's book where you start paying people to move to certain areas you desire development in.  Or Philly's book, where you go with a full blown 10-year tax abatement program for everybody willing to come in and invest. Again, lots of options worth considering.

[I-10east]

The second link is even more offbase, a roundabout, seriously? LOL.

So, skipped right over the example of Lancaster, CA?

If you actually read the discussion instead of just looking at the thread title and spouting off, it was more to do with stimulating economic activity from road diets.. not roundabouts.

Well, the thread title is named 'Murray Hill roundabout' just saying....Yup, eat away at road lanes with 'stimulating' glorified pedestrian islands in the middle of State and Union that no one would ever use; It's all an effort against the evil automobile, right? One size fits all, it stimulates a city no matter what....

[Coolyfett]

What would I like Downtown Jacksonville to become?

Alive.

Id like to see more density, and transit connections to Springfield, Riverside, San Marco & DerkeeVille
More jobs, schools and after hours locations in downtown instead of in the suburbs.

[thelakelander]

The second link is even more offbase, a roundabout, seriously? LOL.

So, skipped right over the example of Lancaster, CA?

If you actually read the discussion instead of just looking at the thread title and spouting off, it was more to do with stimulating economic activity from road diets.. not roundabouts.

Well, the thread title is named 'Murray Hill roundabout' just saying....Yup, eat away at road lanes with 'stimulating' glorified pedestrian islands in the middle of State and Union that no one would ever use; It's all an effort against the evil automobile, right? One size fits all, it stimulates a city no matter what....

One size doesn't fit all.  That's something Jax has struggled with accepting. It's been very detrimental to many neighborhoods in our city. With that said, I don't believe there is any real push to right size State & Union.  That entire corridor is largely ignored despite it having the potential to be a major gateway and retail zone for the urban core. At the very least, we should seriously reevaluate land use and zoning regulations along that stretch (especially the blocks between State and Orange).

[fieldafm]

Well, the thread title is named 'Murray Hill roundabout' just saying....Yup, eat away at road lanes with 'stimulating' glorified pedestrian islands in the middle of State and Union that no one would ever use; It's all an effort against the evil automobile, right? One size fits all, it stimulates a city no matter what....

Sorry your reading comprehension is poor.  Get past the name of the thread (as the actual content went in a different direction, you'd see that if you read all 4 pages) and avoid putting words in my mouth (never advocated for putting pedestrian islands in the middle of State and Union)... and then perhaps you'll start to put your critical thinking skills into use. 

I actually posted examples and research, it would be helpful to read them before you start claiming they are wrong.

[I-10east]

^^^Blah blah blah, typical condescending blabbering about nothing. I posted what I was talking about, then YOU interjected with the offbase links. Maybe your reading comprehension isn't all cracked up like it was meant to be either, since you strayed so far from what I was talking about. Here's a thought, have discussion without haphazardly pulling up links. Get to the point, no one likes deciphering through multiple pages of a thread to find out what your point is.

[Kerry]

IMO we should worry about the inner core areas, and not the very few efficient one way streets this city has DT, expressway ramps, and that sort of thing. I think that the two way Laura Street was a success because it's a pedestrian friendly two lane street that doesn't lead directly to a major highway; I don't think that Main St would have that same effect, and State & Union two ways would be a complete disaster IMO.

With a name like I-10east I shouldn't be surprised in your opposition to removing auto-only transportation systems.  I'll just leave this here for anyone who wants to read it.

http://fireflyliving.com/2013/10/28/why-crumbling-urban-freeways-should-be-torn-down-and-no-new-ones-should-be-built/

[thelakelander]

Great article.  Eventually, we'll have the same opportunities to explore with the Hart Bridge Expressway.  The Main Street Bridge expressway on the Southbank is another.  When these things get to the age of replacement, do we really want to dump hundreds of millions into rebuilding them? Or can we leverage those reconstruction dollars into something that actually economically enhances the properties they fly over?

[fieldafm]

^^^Blah blah blah, typical condescending blabbering about nothing. I posted what I was talking about, then YOU interjected with the offbase links. Maybe your reading comprehension isn't all cracked up like it was meant to be either, since you strayed so far from what I was talking about. Here's a thought, have discussion without haphazardly pulling up links. Get to the point, no one likes deciphering through multiple pages of a thread to find out what your point is.

Your depth of genious is awe inspiring.