Are We Poised for a War in Syria?

[Cheshire Cat]

"Whatever drove it though it is a good thing"

No that's not a good thing Cheshire.  Its an abdication of leadership.  If he indeed wanted to go to congress and get approval, (which I think he should have to begin with).  Then he should have done so without being driven to it.  Kerry has to feel like a  5$ whore with the back tracking he has had to do.  Saudi influence in DC is no news its exists and will until we dump Mideast oil via either new fracking or alternate energy.  I was the one that questioned the mint news and still do the whole Saudi providing chems were based on interviews with Syria rebels, no hard news or tests.

The reality is that getting true and accurate facts out of Syria is going to be nearly impossible.  Of course you are free to view Obama's actions as you wish.     From my view he did not abdicate leadership, but thought better of his own choices and decided to take this to congress.  Of course we can both put whatever spin on his actions that we want at this point because the decision has been made and the issue going to congress. Now we will all have to wait and see what develops not only in congress but on the worldwide stage.  I will always have a problem with the idea that collateral damage which equates to the loss of innocent lives is something we should think about.  If the person who dies is dear to someone, they are not collateral damage to that person and I don't think our government really has the right or authority to insert itself into the civil war in Syria.  I certainly do not believe that this will end with "surgical strikes" if congress approves that action, nor do I believe that such an action will make the nut job dictators or world terrorists give a second thought to the manufacture or use of chemical weapons. 

[Cheshire Cat]

This is yet another "undertone" to what is going horribly wrong in Syria and why all action taken by the U.S. needs to be backed by immutable facts.  It has been repeatedly alleged that "Al Qaeda" has embedded their terrorist ilk into the rebel forces in Syria.  Sound impossible?  It's not, they have done it before with "chilling" results.  The fact is that if the U.S. chooses actions that support the rebels of Syria, we may well be helping to serve the terrorist agenda and grab for power of our "sworn" enemies, the Al Qaeda, the soldiers of Bin Laden.  Some serious investigation is needed into the who, what, when and where of the "rebel" faction in Syria as well as what is known about the powers that be.  It would be inconceivable that the U.S. would fund or fight next to these monsters.



http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/citizen-warrior/2013/aug/30/syrians-al-qaeda-
hijacked-revolution-civil-war/   ( click for full story)

Syrians inside the country say the revolution began with peaceful protests from the poor seeking reforms. The movement now brims with violent terrorist operatives aligned with Al Qaeda and Al-Nasra, including extremist fighters from Lebanon, Turkey and Iraq. The mainstream media portrays a false picture of the now-compromised Free Syrian Army.

The extremist elements within are not just minority-affiliates. They win the battles, they have the ammunition and the food. They have slowly filled the power vaccuum and they do not fight for a freed Syria, but to establish an ultra-fundamentalist state.

American taxpayers have fueled the Syrian Civil War by providing $117 million in communications and medical equipment to the opposition. We can be assured we've contributed more in other ways not on the books.

The United States is then funding our own sworn enemies and their affiliates. These are supposed to be America's foes. These dangerous terrorists we have sacrificed blood, treasure and liberty to defeat are now our allies by proxy.

[If_I_Loved_you]

This is yet another "undertone" to what is going horribly wrong in Syria and why all action taken by the U.S. needs to be backed by immutable facts.  It has been repeatedly alleged that "Al Qaeda" has embedded their terrorist ilk into the rebel forces in Syria.  Sound impossible?  It's not, they have done it before with "chilling" results.  The fact is that if the U.S. chooses actions that support the rebels of Syria, we may well be helping to serve the terrorist agenda and grab for power of our "sworn" enemies, the Al Qaeda, the soldiers of Bin Laden.  Some serious investigation is needed into the who, what, when and where of the "rebel" faction in Syria as well as what is known about the powers that be.  It would be inconceivable that the U.S. would fund or fight next to these monsters.



http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/citizen-warrior/2013/aug/30/syrians-al-qaeda-
hijacked-revolution-civil-war/   ( click for full story)

Syrians inside the country say the revolution began with peaceful protests from the poor seeking reforms. The movement now brims with violent terrorist operatives aligned with Al Qaeda and Al-Nasra, including extremist fighters from Lebanon, Turkey and Iraq. The mainstream media portrays a false picture of the now-compromised Free Syrian Army.

The extremist elements within are not just minority-affiliates. They win the battles, they have the ammunition and the food. They have slowly filled the power vaccuum and they do not fight for a freed Syria, but to establish an ultra-fundamentalist state.

American taxpayers have fueled the Syrian Civil War by providing $117 million in communications and medical equipment to the opposition. We can be assured we've contributed more in other ways not on the books.

The United States is then funding our own sworn enemies and their affiliates. These are supposed to be America's foes. These dangerous terrorists we have sacrificed blood, treasure and liberty to defeat are now our allies by proxy.

"The Washington Times Newspaper" is a Right Wing Newspaper they can't stand Obama! I love it when the right wing nuts try to tell us that the so called "mainstream media" doesn't understand the Facts? LMAO  P.S. If you joined the Armed Forces you must do what the Military tells you to do..............

[Cheshire Cat]

Right wing, left wing, who cares?  The reality is that the involvement of Al Qaeda has been alleged in this instance by more sources and media outlets than the one above.  It is of paramount importance for the U.S.A. to make sure this element has not infected the rebel cause and that we are not helping to fund their efforts.  Embedding their ilk into efforts that they are not directly involved with in order to grow their influence is an ongoing "MO" of Al Qaeda.  Shall we just hope the allegations are untrue or shall we investigate them?  They delivered one of the single most damaging blows on American soil we have ever seen.  Let's not pretend that they are incapable of doing damage on the ground in Syria.  That would be terribly arrogant of us and frankly stupid.  This must be investigated and understood to be true or false and it needs to be investigated now, on the front end of more talks or potential action.

[BridgeTroll]

It is true Diane... and there is worse... Hezbollah and Hamas (Iranian proxies) have allied themselves with Assad.  It is already possible/probable that Assad has or is ready to arm these two groups with chemical weapons.  A side effect of an Obama missle attack is the threat to Israel...

Let the Baathists and al qaida gas and butcher each other... let Hamas and Hezbollah bomb and butcher al qaida...

There really cannot be too many women and children left in Syria as most are now in refugee camps in surrounding countries... or dead.

[Cheshire Cat]

It is true Diane... and there is worse... Hezbollah and Hamas (Iranian proxies) have allied themselves with Assad.  It is already possible/probable that Assad has or is ready to arm these two groups with chemical weapons.  A side effect of an Obama missle attack is the threat to Israel...

Let the Baathists and al qaida gas and butcher each other... let Hamas and Hezbollah bomb and butcher al qaida...

There really cannot be too many women and children left in Syria as most are now in refugee camps in surrounding countries... or dead.

I fear it is true and I fear that the U.S. is the "big Gorilla" that is being pocked by pointed sticks on all sides.  We simply must know what we are dealing with and admit that we cannot change what is happening in the middle east.  They must work it out themselves and that will likely take more time than most of us have left on this earth, if history is the indicator.

[Cheshire Cat]

As to the potential of collateral damage in all of this action.  If the U.S.A. has reached the point that we can surgically attack another country, then we should also be able to do all that we can to make sure that the innocents who want out get out.  Is that possible?  By today's standards of action and the reality on the ground it is not.  So BT I have to agree with you that I would rather the parties involved go at each other and let the realities of their actions be put entirely on their shoulders.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Right wing, left wing, who cares?  The reality is that the involvement of Al Qaeda has been alleged in this instance by more sources and media outlets than the one above.  It is of paramount importance for the U.S.A. to make sure this element has not infected the rebel cause and that we are not helping to fund their efforts.  Embedding their ilk into efforts that they are not directly involved in in order to grow their influence is an ongoing "MO" of Al Qaeda.  Shall we just hope the allegations are untrue or shall we investigate them?  They delivered one of the single most damaging blows on American soil we have ever seen.  Let's not pretend that they are incapable of doing damage on the ground in Syria.  That would be terribly arrogant of us and frankly stupid.  This must be investigated and understood to be true or false and it needs to be investigated now, on the front end of more talks or potential action.

Diane who should do the investigation in which most people will believe? It is out of are hands it's up to the Congress God help us. And the President of The United States of America!

[BridgeTroll]

It is true Diane... and there is worse... Hezbollah and Hamas (Iranian proxies) have allied themselves with Assad.  It is already possible/probable that Assad has or is ready to arm these two groups with chemical weapons.  A side effect of an Obama missle attack is the threat to Israel...

Let the Baathists and al qaida gas and butcher each other... let Hamas and Hezbollah bomb and butcher al qaida...

There really cannot be too many women and children left in Syria as most are now in refugee camps in surrounding countries... or dead.

I fear it is true and I fear that the U.S. is the "big Gorilla" that is being pocked by pointed sticks on all sides.  We simply must know what we are dealing with and admit that we cannot change what is happening in the middle east.  They must work it out themselves and that will likely take more time than most of us have left on this earth, if history is the indicator.

It is the ultimate.... no win situation.  Since Obama boxed himself in with his "red line" threat... not responding to Assads use of chemical weapons will be a sign of weakness... not just to Assad but to Iran also.  Iran is watching closely as they are slowly bringing their nuclear capability on line.  The US has long had a policy of no nukes in Iran... so they are watching to see how we respond to... obamas red line.

If Assad jr. wins the "civil war" the US will be blamed for not helping overthrow a regime worse than gaddafi and hussein combined.  If the islamist rebels overthrow Assad... we will again be on the wrong side as... well they are islamists (al qaida etc).

Fun stuff this real world politik...

[Cheshire Cat]

Right wing, left wing, who cares?  The reality is that the involvement of Al Qaeda has been alleged in this instance by more sources and media outlets than the one above.  It is of paramount importance for the U.S.A. to make sure this element has not infected the rebel cause and that we are not helping to fund their efforts.  Embedding their ilk into efforts that they are not directly involved in in order to grow their influence is an ongoing "MO" of Al Qaeda.  Shall we just hope the allegations are untrue or shall we investigate them?  They delivered one of the single most damaging blows on American soil we have ever seen.  Let's not pretend that they are incapable of doing damage on the ground in Syria.  That would be terribly arrogant of us and frankly stupid.  This must be investigated and understood to be true or false and it needs to be investigated now, on the front end of more talks or potential action.

Diane who should do the investigation in which most people will believe? It is out of are hands it's up to the Congress God help us. And the President of The United States of America!

Is this a serious question?  If we have resources that are being used and relied upon to determine whether or not Syrian leadership used chemical weapons do you think that those self same resources cannot be used to determine the involvement of Al Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah?  You seem to think the U.S. have enough facts in had to bomb in Syria, but you still ask how do we go about getting facts on the ground about the who and what of this civil war.  SMDH!

[Cheshire Cat]

It is true Diane... and there is worse... Hezbollah and Hamas (Iranian proxies) have allied themselves with Assad.  It is already possible/probable that Assad has or is ready to arm these two groups with chemical weapons.  A side effect of an Obama missle attack is the threat to Israel...

Let the Baathists and al qaida gas and butcher each other... let Hamas and Hezbollah bomb and butcher al qaida...

There really cannot be too many women and children left in Syria as most are now in refugee camps in surrounding countries... or dead.

I fear it is true and I fear that the U.S. is the "big Gorilla" that is being pocked by pointed sticks on all sides.  We simply must know what we are dealing with and admit that we cannot change what is happening in the middle east.  They must work it out themselves and that will likely take more time than most of us have left on this earth, if history is the indicator.

It is the ultimate.... no win situation.  Since Obama boxed himself in with his "red line" threat... not responding to Assads use of chemical weapons will be a sign of weakness... not just to Assad but to Iran also.  Iran is watching closely as they are slowly bringing their nuclear capability on line.  The US has long had a policy of no nukes in Iran... so they are watching to see how we respond to... obamas red line.

If Assad jr. wins the "civil war" the US will be blamed for not helping overthrow a regime worse than gaddafi and hussein combined.  If the islamist rebels overthrow Assad... we will again be on the wrong side as... well they are islamists (al qaida etc).

Fun stuff this real world politik...

That's the point isn't it really?  The U.S. will be blamed regardless and that is our own fault for playing at being the "world's police".  It was interesting to find out that chemical weapon's had already been used in Syria on more than three previous occasions and the world remained mute.  It wasn't until the numbers of injuries as a result of chemical weapons grew large enough that anyone paid attention. Now some politicians want to blame Obama for the "civil war" in Syria.  It's absurd and insane to assert such a thing yet political players would pretend it is so.  As far as the President's statements, I think as a society we should be reasonable enough to change course when more and perhaps revealing information comes out regarding any world wide issue.  I think it takes greater strength for a President to change course in view of the desires of the citizens of our country and the world if in fact military action on our part will not change what happens in Syria and the middle east.  There is no law beyond "ego" that says rethinking a course of action is a weakness when in fact it may be the truest measure of strength depending upon the ramifications of military action on humanity.  Let's not pretend this is not about people losing their lives and us eventually being drawn into a war that will put our boots on the ground.  We don't need to let that happen and that is where this is headed in spite of all this nonsense about "surgical strikes" and that is all.  It is never all when it comes to involvement in any war.

[BridgeTroll]

Not sure I buy this...

I think it takes greater strength for a President to change course in view of the desires of the citizens of our country and the world.

I personally think he is hiding behind it.  He has given himself an "out".  "I know I said red line... but congress says no so..."  It will be interesting to see how the congress leans and how Obama responds... then how Assad and Iran and France and Israel and etc responds.

There is no law beyond "ego" that says rethinking a course of action is a weakness when in fact it may be the truest measure of strength depending upon the ramifications of military action on humanity.

Have no doubt... rethinking his red line threat absolutely WILL be percieved as weakness by opponents, friends and the non committed around the world.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Right wing, left wing, who cares?  The reality is that the involvement of Al Qaeda has been alleged in this instance by more sources and media outlets than the one above.  It is of paramount importance for the U.S.A. to make sure this element has not infected the rebel cause and that we are not helping to fund their efforts.  Embedding their ilk into efforts that they are not directly involved in in order to grow their influence is an ongoing "MO" of Al Qaeda.  Shall we just hope the allegations are untrue or shall we investigate them?  They delivered one of the single most damaging blows on American soil we have ever seen.  Let's not pretend that they are incapable of doing damage on the ground in Syria.  That would be terribly arrogant of us and frankly stupid.  This must be investigated and understood to be true or false and it needs to be investigated now, on the front end of more talks or potential action.

Diane who should do the investigation in which most people will believe? It is out of are hands it's up to the Congress God help us. And the President of The United States of America!

Is this a serious question?  If we have resources that are being used and relied upon to determine whether or not Syrian leadership used chemical weapons do you think that those self same resources cannot be used to determine the involvement of Al Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah?  You seem to think the U.S. have enough facts in had to bomb in Syria, but you still ask how do we go about getting facts on the ground about the who and what of this civil war.  SMDH!

I believe Syria did use Chemical Weapons. But you keep beginning up these so called facts from the washington times and others SMDH!

[Cheshire Cat]

Not sure I buy this...

I think it takes greater strength for a President to change course in view of the desires of the citizens of our country and the world.

I personally think he is hiding behind it.  He has given himself an "out".  "I know I said red line... but congress says no so..."  It will be interesting to see how the congress leans and how Obama responds... then how Assad and Iran and France and Israel and etc responds.

There is no law beyond "ego" that says rethinking a course of action is a weakness when in fact it may be the truest measure of strength depending upon the ramifications of military action on humanity.

Have no doubt... rethinking his red line threat absolutely WILL be percieved as weakness by opponents, friends and the non committed around the world.

I am sure a lot of people agree with you BT.  I am still serious about the ability to change course, not just in the case of a President, but as it would apply to any individual who is poised to make a serious decision that will impact other people.

[BridgeTroll]

Not sure I buy this...

I think it takes greater strength for a President to change course in view of the desires of the citizens of our country and the world.

I personally think he is hiding behind it.  He has given himself an "out".  "I know I said red line... but congress says no so..."  It will be interesting to see how the congress leans and how Obama responds... then how Assad and Iran and France and Israel and etc responds.

There is no law beyond "ego" that says rethinking a course of action is a weakness when in fact it may be the truest measure of strength depending upon the ramifications of military action on humanity.

Have no doubt... rethinking his red line threat absolutely WILL be percieved as weakness by opponents, friends and the non committed around the world.

I am sure a lot of people agree with you BT.  I am still serious about the ability to change course, not just in the case of a President, but as it would apply to any individual who is poised to make a serious decision that will impact other people.

I would contend in this case that a "change in course" implies indecision.  This indecision will be viewed as weakness and vacillation.  From where you and I stand we would likely see this as a miscalculation by those who see it that way.  Miscalculation by Assad or Iran or Russia or Israel... may be an even worse outcome of this mess than we think...