Learning from Greenville, SC

[vicupstate]

On street Parking is always free, but it is time limited during business hours on week days.  Evening and Weekend parking is free in certain garages as well. 

You will be ticketed if you park more than the alloted time for your on-street space, but you don't have to feed a meter.

Ironically, finding a space is easy during business hours, it is after hours when finding a space is more difficult. 

[second_pancake]

On street Parking is always free, but it is time limited during business hours on week days.  Evening and Weekend parking is free in certain garages as well. 

You will be ticketed if you park more than the alloted time for your on-street space, but you don't have to feed a meter.

Ironically, finding a space is easy during business hours, it is after hours when finding a space is more difficult. 

The same thing is done in Fernandina.  During the summer months, and spring events, especially huge events like the Concourse D'elegance, The Baush and Lomb Tennis Tournament, the parking situation doesn't change downtown yet there is a lot more traffic and fewer parking spaces, but they are all still free.  They have 'enforcers' that will walk around and chalk your tire, come back in 2 hours and if you're still there, then they'll give you a ticket or have you towed.

[thelakelander]

This sounds like a viable plan.  What we have in place does not work effectively.  Maybe it worth pursuing as a demonstration project on a street like Laura or Adams?

[Former PBBoy]

Greenville has a Great mayor,Knox White, who has a great vision to take Greenville to the next level .He is  creating a nice little town from the Mill town that is was once. We moved to Greenville from Jupiter 3 years ago,and the infrastructure is great. The People unfortunately are still stuck in a mill town attitude, highly under educated, Culturally backwards and unwilling to grasp change. Most shopping is at a sub-standard level, and the Dining options, while large in numbers are severely lacking in culinary expertise. Which is to be expected in a town where traditionally mill workers ate hot dogs, mayonnaise based spread sandwiches, and dined out at "meat and Threes".Also Greenville is rather blighted by the Bible belt thumping of Bob Jones,which unfortunately,keeps the population form blooming to it's full potential. When The same steps that Greenville has taken are initiated in a major metropolitan population such as Jacksonville, the results will be Breathtaking.

[RiversideGator]

So, are you considering leaving, pbbboy?

[Former PBBoy]

So, are you considering leaving, pbbboy?

Most Definantly! We will be Back to a city in a couple of months. Greenville will be a Great town in a few years (10-20) but life is too short to wait!!!!

[apaladin]

Jacksonville is for sure a larger city but I just wanted to point out that Greenville's city pop. is so small becaose the city limits are really small due to archaic SC laws. From downtown you can actually walk to the city limits in some places in about 10 mins. Doesn't Jacksonville have the largest city limits in the country? If the same land areas were compared, the populations would be a lot close. Another thing Greenville has going for it, is just about every night there is a scheduled event downtown from April to October, such as Downtown Alive, Main St. Jazz, Rythem on the River, Free outdoor movies etc. Someone mentioned amenities, I think Greenville has most but not as many as Jacksonville. We do have a nice Performing Arts Center and Coliseum downtown. I've seen a lot of great concerts in Greenville from country to the Eagles, Elton John, Billy Joel, Pearl Jam, Tony Bennett, Rod Stewart, Aretha Franklin, Wayne Newton etc etc. Y'all come on up for a visit!!

[thelakelander]

Its nice to get some input from Greenville residents on their community.  I'm very impressed with the city's efforts on redeveloping their downtown and their agressiveness in recruiting high paying jobs in that area.

Doesn't Jacksonville have the largest city limits in the country? If the same land areas were compared, the populations would be a lot close.

Greenville's city limits cover 26 square miles, while Jacksonville's old limits covered 31 square miles (including some large areas of the St. Johns River).  In 1950, Jacksonville's old limits had 204,000 residents.  There has been significant population loss in the old limits since then.  Today, that number would be closer to 110,000, yet still significantly larger than Greenville's current 56,000.

[RiversideGator]

So, are you considering leaving, pbbboy?

Most Definantly! We will be Back to a city in a couple of months. Greenville will be a Great town in a few years (10-20) but life is too short to wait!!!!

Where to?

[Former PBBoy]

So, are you considering leaving, pbbboy?

Most Definantly! We will be Back to a city in a couple of months. Greenville will be a Great town in a few years (10-20) but life is too short to wait!!!!

Where to?

We considered Santa Barbara, going Back to DC, Returning to Greenwich,But finally have found a great fit for us in Charleston SC. We really do like being near the water,and in a cosmopolitian city so there are not really that many options.

[motonenterprises]

Its nice to get some input from Greenville residents on their community.  I'm very impressed with the city's efforts on redeveloping their downtown and their agressiveness in recruiting high paying jobs in that area.

Doesn't Jacksonville have the largest city limits in the country? If the same land areas were compared, the populations would be a lot close.

Greenville's city limits cover 26 square miles, while Jacksonville's old limits covered 31 square miles (including some large areas of the St. Johns River).  In 1950, Jacksonville's old limits had 204,000 residents.  There has been significant population loss in the old limits since then.  Today, that number would be closer to 110,000, yet still significantly larger than Greenville's current 56,000.

Hi folks! First and foremost thanks for the positive post on our area. I just want to look at these numbers. Jacksonville is larger I'm sure, but Greenville, SC is nothing to sneeze at when you look at the area in certain ways. Greenville's urban area is I believe 302,194. Which most urban enthuisiast would say is a better indicator of the size of a city or town. Upstate, SC works as a whole and as mentioned the original GSA metro has 1.2 million plus. City limit numbers can throw you off. I remember seeing somewhere that Jacksonville city limit population was 700,000+! Atlanta's city population is 400,000+, can't remember exact numbers. If you went by that Jacksonville is larger than Atlanta, but when you look at metro areas it shows something different. Atlanta has 5 million+ in its metro versus Jacksonville's metro. This is not intented to bring Atlanta in the thread, but to give an example of how numbers can be confusing.

[thelakelander]

Welcome to the site motonenterprises.  I remember you from urban planet.  I also agree that urban area statistics gives a more realistic indicator of a city's true size, than metropolitan area and city limit numbers. 

2000 US Census urban area numbers (Southern urban areas over 300,000):

urban area population - (urban area population density) - urban area
4,919,036 (4,407) - Miami

4,145,659 (2,946) - Dallas

3,933,920 (3,401) - Washington

3,822,509 (2,951) - Houston

3,499,840 (1,783) - Atlanta

2,062,339 (2,571) - Tampa

1,394,439 (2,647) - Virginia Beach

1,157,431 (2,554) - Orlando

1,009,283 (5,102) - New Orleans

972,091 (2,431) - Memphis

901,920 (2,835) - Austin

882,295 (2,149) - Jacksonville

863,582 (2,207) - Louisville

818,836 (1,814) - Richmond

758,927 (1,745) - Charlotte

749,935 (1,741) - Nashville

663,615 (1,693) - Birmingham

559,229 (2,068) - Sarasota

541,527 (1,694) - Raleigh

423,410 (1,833) - Charleston, SC

420,537 (1,564) - Columbia

419,830 (1,237) - Knoxville

393,289 (1,790) - Palm Bay/Melbourne

360,331 (1,753) - Little Rock

343,331 (1,,184) - Chattanooga

335,630 (1,448) - Augusta

329,757 (1,719) - Cape Coral/Fort Myers

323,783 (1,476) - Pensacola

317,605 (1,507) - Mobile

302,194 (1,334) - Greenville

Blue indicates cities with various forms of rail mass transit already operating

Green indicates cities with various forms of rail already under construction or with serious plans in place

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_urban_areas_of_the_United_States

----

However, size does not mean anything.

1,583,138 (3,340) - Portland

208,886 (2,040) - Savannah

Portland is smaller than cities like Houston, Atlanta and Tampa, yet their planning practices over the years have created a vibrant urban livable atmosphere that the others now dream of.  Savannah is smaller than Jacksonville and Greenville, yet their priority of promoting and preserving their historic building fabric brings in a ton of tourism dollars into that city and gives it an atmosphere we wished we had locally in our urban core.

So to sum it up, just because Greenville is smaller in size, does not mean that the revitalization techniques implemented there could not do wonders for a city of size of Jacksonville.

[vicupstate]

Parking is a frequent topic of discussion on this forum, so I thought I would post this article on Greenville's situation. 

City puts a friendly face on parking

By Paul Alongi
STAFF WRITER

Angela Limbaugh had a stack of maps in her pocket as she cruised downtown Greenville's streets in a two-seat, electric car with a parking ticket machine on the dash.

She's among the city's new breed of parking enforcement specialists -- and they don't just write tickets any more.

Specialists hit the streets prepared to give directions, explain the bronze mice game and answer other questions visitors might have.

"The vehicle is a big attraction," parking enforcement supervisor Charles Cronin said, while standing next to the egg-shaped car.

Anyone who has found an orange ticket flapping under a windshield wiper knows how frustrating it can be to park for free downtown.

But the city has tried to ease the situation by turning its enforcers into "ambassadors," offering rates that undercut national averages and handing out warnings at peak times.

Kim Cosby, the city's director of transportation, said that while free parking decks sometimes fill up on the weekends, drivers should be able to find a spot nearby for a few dollars.

"If you go a half of a block over or around the corner, there's plenty of available parking in the next closest deck," she said.

Greenville had some of the nation's lowest parking rates in a recent survey of 51 cities, according Colliers International. No city beat Greenville's median daily parking rate, $6, although two cities tied -- Memphis, Tenn. and West Palm Beach, Fla.

Greenville's median hourly rate of $1.50 came in far below the national average, $5.10.

Free, on-street parking near Main Street can fill up quickly, especially during downtown events.

Drivers who get tickets have 14 days to appeal in writing and are expected to enclose payment for the appeal to be processed, according to the city's policy.

The city will reply with a "notice of disposition" and, if a refund is due, payment will be sent in 30 days, according to the policy.

Cody Bellows, a college student, said she prefers to park for free on the street, but it's not always possible.

"Sometimes I'll just drive around forever," she said. "I'll give up and park in the garage."

On a recent Thursday morning, Bellows said she found a free, on-street spot for her Toyota 4Runner.

Then she found a spot for herself -- in a chair outside Port City Java.

Paul Alongi can be reached at 298-4746.

[tufsu1]

I visited Greenville yesterday...what a great little city (especially for South Carolina)...it is obvious through the architecture and publi spaces that the community cares deeply about design.

That said, I also found Greenville sprawling out quite a bit....about 15+ miles to the south of the central city....and guess what else....they have a new partial-beltway (I-185) that is a toll road!

[thelakelander]

Yep.  Greenville is really a small city that has been taken over by recent development.  The BMW plant they landed back in 1992 really put things into high gear for them.  However, despite the sprawl in the region, they've been able to create a vibrant downtown.  This should go a long way to killing the excuses for inactivity that Jax has grown used to accepting.  You should check out some of Vicupstate's comments on that privately financed toll road.  Its about to fall into default.  That's a lesson that the First Coast should keep in mind.