Rail without the FTA: Detroit

[tufsu1]

Check this out...Randal O'Toole threatens that, with light rail, Detroit might be like Denver or Portland!

http://www.detnews.com/article/20111209/MIVIEW/112090374/1467/OPINION01/Deja-voodoo--Detroit-rail-repeats-other-cities--mistakes

[thelakelander]

LOL, is it safe to O'Toole has a problem with light rail?

[dougskiles]

O'Toole is getting paid a ton of money to "think" like that.

I am particularly amused by the part when he talks about developers being subsidized by tax increment financing at TODs that could otherwise be used for fire, police, schools and libraries.  What he fails to mention is that most TODs are in areas that already have these services in place, and in many ways underutilized.  Contrast that to the real subsidy of expanded highways to the fringe that have no mechanism for funding - except for the impact fees that our state legislature wants to eliminate.

[JeffreyS]

I know I am preaching to the choir here but this is the comment I made on the OToole article.

I guess if you leave out of the equation the economic benefits to the community of transit then economically it doesn't make sense. The fact that transit contributes to it's operating expense (unlike other public services) is always held against it. Transit brings in roughly 6 dollars of development money for every dollar spent. Ticket fares contribute 40 to 80% of operating costs. (ever see a fireman do that). Transit is a public service that contributes to the quality of life in a community like police service and the community pays for it.

[tufsu1]

Jeffrey...O'Toole isn't preaching agansit transit (this time)...he just likes buses over rail

[JeffreyS]

My comments should have specified fixed transit.

[thelakelander]

I must admit, has this guy ever visited Detroit?  Knowing the condition of Detroit, it's hard to use Portland and Denver as bad examples, no matter what the subject is.  He's railing off about TIF but in Detroit's case, its probably exactly what they should do.  That city is boxed in by burbs that have their own municipal governments.  Whatever tax breaks/programs they can give or implement to attract new infill development should be considered.

[Ocklawaha]

Check this out...Randal O'Toole threatens that, with light rail, Detroit might be like Denver or Portland!

http://www.detnews.com/article/20111209/MIVIEW/112090374/1467/OPINION01/Deja-voodoo--Detroit-rail-repeats-other-cities--mistakes

O'Toole is your A typical, big oil, big highway, conservative jackass. He makes a living by throwing mud at important transit projects, particularly rail. The man hates rail and why not, he gets paid for it.

I just sent the following to the Huffington Post comment section under the story, 'With Detroit Light Rail Canceled, Advocates Make The Case For Bus Rapid Transit.'

As a transportation consultant who spent years in Colombia, we need to put this in context..

Colombia and Brasil have a vested interest in selling the BRT technology­. Most would readily admit that Bogota's Trans-Meli­neio BRT may be more famous, it is far from the best. Medellin has a rail based Metro http://www­.metrodeme­dellin.gov­.co/index.­php?lang=e­n

In modern Colombian cities there are literally millions of people who cannot afford a car and never will. Traffic creeps along in gridlock conditions­. In Colombia however, mobility is never in question, any where, any time, any direction. Sad to say this challenge is not being met in the United States.

But these conditions cannot be transferre­d onto the profiles of cities in the United States. In Bogota where traffic might move at two miles per hour, a bus moving at 20 seems to be flying. That isn't going to work in Detroit.

So while both Colombia and Brasil are touting their BRT success stories, both Bogota and Curitiba are currently building metro rail systems. VISIT: http://www­.metroenbo­gota.com/m­ovilidad-b­ogota/las-­7-propuest­as-con-las­-petro-qui­ere-ganarl­e-la-inmov­ilidad-de-­bogota or http://www­.metro.cur­itiba.pr.g­ov.br/

BRT promoters in the US will probably claim that the BRT in South America was the seed that planted 'rail,' nothing could be farther from the truth. South America has been there, done that and rail is the clear winner.

OCKLAWAHA
metrojacks­onville.co­m

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

here's another article on the shift in plan

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424052970204844504577100660265044228-lMyQjAxMTAxMDEwODExNDgyWj.html?mod=wsj_share_ema

[thelakelander]

This is all that matters if I'm in that local leadership group who ponied up their cash for economic development in core Detroit instead of extending LRT or buses all over town:

Local business leaders had a more limited plan in mind, a 3.2-mile privately funded rail line linking two busy commercial and cultural centers. But at the urging of the city and federal officials, organizers expanded the project to extend more than nine miles, from downtown to the city's northern boundary, sending the construction estimates toward $600 million.

Part ways and take your money and develop your original privately funded rail line because that was a sound project for that particular corridor.  The FTA, Mayor Bing, and the State can work together to fund better bus service and respond to transportation and political issues the original $100 million were never meant to solve.

[thelakelander]

A change of heart in Detroit.  The executives of the companies who donated their money want LRT, not BRT.

Detroit â€" Light rail is back on the table for Detroit, but private backers of the project have 90 days to convince officials the plan is viable, Mayor Dave Bing said Friday.

The announcement came after a meeting between Bing, U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, Gov. Rick Snyder, lawmakers and business leaders supporting the M-1 rail project.

Last month, officials agreed to scrap the proposed light rail up Woodward in favor of a series of high-speed buses. But after a chorus of criticism from transit advocates and private backers, the plan for 3.4 miles of light rail along Woodward from the New Center area into downtown Detroit is back under consideration, Bing said.

"Some time ago, there was an announcement made that light rail is off the table," Bing told reporters after the meeting Friday. "Based on the conversation that we've had today and the agreements we've had, we see light rail as a part of regional transportation. Light rail is not dead. … All of us are on the same page, understanding how important transportation is going to be in Detroit, southeastern Michigan and the state."

...

"Transit is important to our state," Snyder said. "It's about working well together, and that's what this meeting was about today. M-1 can be an important sub-component and one (that) can be critical to the downtown future.

"We're going to be working hard in Lansing working on doing a regional transit authority. At the same time, the M-1 group will be working hard over next 90 days to continue their plan to show how viable it is. Hopefully we'll be able to merge them together."

...

"We have $100 million in commitments and four or five years of preliminary design," said Gilbert, founder of Quicken Loans and co-chairman of M-1 Rail Inc., last month. "It doesn't make a lot of sense to kill something that has proven in Portland, Denver, Minneapolis, Miami and San Diego to create commerce and jobs along the route."

full article: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120106/METRO/201060409/-Light-rail-not-dead-Private-backers-given-time-push-project-Detroit?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[Ocklawaha]

Sounds like Gilbert is very up to date on his urbanism, or he is another of the worlds several million rail fans... Interestingly enough, people from the mayor of BRT Curitiba, and BRT Bogota, to Joseph Carmine Bonanno are understanding and investing in Rail transit (hell, Joe even owned part of Lionel for a time... don't ask me how I know this, I just do LOL), leaving Jacksonville in their wake.

http://www.metro.curitiba.pr.gov.br/

http://www.metroenbogota.com/

Once again the world is passing us by, bravo Mr. Gilbert.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Light Rail In Detroit Not Dead As Bing, Snyder Back Private Plan For Shorter Line

HUFFINGTON POST

Mayor Dave Bing and Gov. Rick Snyder met with Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood Friday to discuss plans to revive a proposed light rail system in Detroit.

Bing and Snyder had announced in December that plans for an eight mile stretch of light rail up Woodward Avenue would be canceled in favor of building a larger rapid bus network for the region. LaHood had expressed concern that Detroit would not be able to pay for the $528 million rail project, nor properly fund the rail line over the long term.

At the time, the backers of the proposed M1 light rail system, and other members of the business community, said they would push forward with their plans to build a shorter line.

They will now have 90 days to put together a proposal that shows they've planned for construction and operating costs for a 3.4 mile line that would be integrated into a regional transit system. Private investors have committed $80 million so far, and hope to reach $100 million.

LaHood and previously promised $25 million in federal funding to the project, but whether that money will come through appears dependent on how much the private investors can raise. There had been some talk of that TIGER grant money going to the proposed bus rapid transit (BRT) system instead.

Bing said new agreements would allow light rail to be part of the proposed regional transit system.

"Light rail is not dead," Bing said. "It's back on the table, but it's part of the BRT system."

Snyder agreed that the M1 plan would fit into a regional system.

"This partnership's going to move forward in parallel process," he said, adding officials would continue work on the proposed bus system.

[thelakelander]

We some Gilberts in Jacksonville!

[thelakelander]

I figured it was about time for an update.  As said here a few months ago, backers (Detroit's version of Jax's Civic Council) of bringing a fixed rail starter line to urban Detroit are moving along on their own:

Woodward light rail line group says it will pay for first 10 years of operations

By Matt Helms | Detroit Free Press

April 23, 2012

The private-sector group that wants to build a 3-mile light rail line on Woodward Avenue from downtown Detroit to the New Center said today it has raised all of the money it will need to build the line â€" and is pledging to fund the operations of the system privately for the first 10 years after it’s built.

The M-1 Rail Group outlined the details in a report it has sent to the federal government. The group of private investors and philanthropic groups behind the effort said they would commit to paying the estimated $5.1 million annual cost of operating the Woodward rail line through 2025.

That’s a significant step for the project. How to pay for operating the system has been a key point of contention in a city that’s now under a consent deal with the state to oversee its finances and plans to slash millions from its annual appropriations for the city’s bus system.

The group would then donate the project’s assets to the appropriate agency, such as a regional transit authority that Gov. Rick Snyder and the Legislature are working to create for southeast Michigan to oversee a big new network of rapid-transit buses on Woodward, Michigan Avenue, Gratiot and Hall Roads connecting Detroit to key suburbs, Metro Airport and Ann Arbor.

The project would still require nearly $40 million in federal funding that M-1 Rail said the feds have already committed for construction of the rail line.

full article: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120423/METRO05/204230407#ixzz1steDjQhB