The Role Of Mass Transit In Brooklyn's Renaissance

[Charles Hunter]

Lee Street Viaduct - Don't know the year, but it was after the city put the Convention Center into the old train station.  They wanted an unobstructed view of the front of the old terminal, and, to provide a vehicular entrance to the "front door".  Not sure which was more important.  So it was after the CC moved in, and before the DOT rebuilt the Acosta Bridge, and put ramps over Water Street, blocking the view from downtown.

[Ocklawaha]

If the Viaduct is ever rebuilt (as it absolutely MUST BE to bring rail back to the old Terminal) I'd love to see them go back to the original name for historical reasons. It appears our friend Joel McEachin and I might have discovered where the old bronze historical marker/bridge dedication from the original viaduct is hidden. Would be great to see that placed on a new viaduct.

[Noone]

Thanks!

Your welcome.

I'm definitely warming up to rail. It was MJ and last year when we were in Boston we spent an extra day just using the rail and then took Amtrack to Maine.

Have you guys reached out to CSX? Has anyone approached anyone about the laying of the track and making this a jobs program for Jacksonville residents? Again I don't pretend for a second to know how the track is laid but I keep thinking about the Pub Crawl Rail Team and just laying 25' or 50' of track. For those people who are out of work the rail guys who would be overseeing this may say "Hey Joe, Did you see that guy Mike?"  "I did. Before  the last break he had a Food truck lined up and was telling everyone they had 5 minutes to run into Mark's and get their drink orders lined up." I'm glad he's on our team,"

I believe JTA has approached CSX about studying to possibly utilize some of their corridors for commuter rail and that continues to be an ongoing process.  However, CSX doesn't stand in the way of utilizing the Skyway to access Brooklyn or a streetcar line between Riverside and Downtown.  Neither option would utilize or cross CSX ROW.

HO,HO,HO, Away the tables and chairs Go. 2012-732

You continue to miss the point with CSX.  CSX- Where are YOU? Mr. Ward, Mr. Halverson. Does everyone remember when Ronnie Fussell at a Jacksonville city council meeting showed up with a box of studies and reports and put them on the table for all to see? It was a big overflowing box. We don't need a study to lay rail!

Right now we have the Hemming Plaza Seat  Hoggers that will soon be replaced by the Hemming Plaza Bench Warmers 2012-732 and someone correct me but the accelerated legislative calendar can have this done by Jan. 8th.

PUBLIC, PRIVATE, PARTNERSHIP! Just what is It?

Not talking about crossing any CSX row. Just a straight streetcar line of track with oversight by  CSX a corporate GIANT DOWNTOWN and turn it into a job fair for anyone who wants to volunteer and Make It Happen and at the same time give the rail guys an opportunity to evaluate people that may want a career. Take it straight down Bay St.

Hey, Donna and Tim Deegan  what about a 100' of pink railroad ties and pink rail?
The Sulzbacher rail team
CSX rail team
Jaguars rail team
Jail rail team (Why not?)
Hemming Plaza rail team
My favorite.
The Pub Crawl rail team

I'm All In

2012 is 2025

Noone, you would soon discover that the very LAST people on earth that would have anything to do with passengers (liability) on rail, are the railroad companies themselves. This is part of the reason why the entire world industry is watching the FECI/All Aboard Florida concept.

From the late 1930's-early-1950's the railroads poured billions into modern passenger trains, stations and employees, but by 1959 it was clear that it would be a disastrous investment. It literally brought down the entire industry and you might recall by 1970, (when my High School counselor laughed and told me to get out of his office for suggesting I would one day work for a railroad) it appeared to many that there would be no railroads by 2000.

The government stepped in in 1971 and took a very few '15' trains for a 'new national system' and the railroads became freight only carriers. By 1990, with fuel prices climbing, and deregulation allowing the railroads to abandon their branchlines and focus on intercity freight the mold was set for the future.

Railroads as a rule do no want you on their property, don't want to open ANY door to passengers and will absolutely do anything in their power to stop a passenger project. Just look at the Tampa Streetcar's $400,000 dollar insurance premium because they simply cross a seldom used spur of CSX.

Many people have come to us shouting 'Trains for people - call CSX or FEC or NS' but the truth is we have no friends in the industry.

Yeah, Noone, CSX is the last company in town that's going to do what you're suggesting with CSX for a streetcar. You'd save time and money avoiding them.

.

Ock, Lake, I'm in total shock. Seriously. This is HUGE news. And it's not good.

CSX- How tomorrow Moves and Jacksonville idles.

JCCI -2025. Ben Warner forget kayaking Downtown before 2025 we need to kayak Downtown before Jan. 19.

I just can't believe it. I've asked about this on other threads. Have you guys ever talked with Ward or Halverson or met with them at their office? I'm serious.

I remember when the Old Fuller Warren Bridge was an issue and I don't know how many times I tried and reach out to Hugh Greene with Baptist and was blown off.

I did the same with Mike Ward at CSX. Not as often. But the thought for reaching out to CSX at the time was how cool would this free 60' wide 1300' Downtown Destination Pier in partial shade be to see the trains crossing the river. believe it or not I brought them each a coffee mug and to this day don't know if they ever received it. If I ever get a chance to talk with these guys it won't be about the OFWB pier it will be did you ever get the mug.

Are we this LOST?  Btw it just reminded me that there is another Super Duper Secret FIND meeting Mon. 1/7/13 this one is a noticed meeting to follow up on the non noticed meeting that had new stuff thrown in and out of a city of 1 million there was only 1 person at the previous meeting.

Palms Fish Camp. Be patient. get a million dollars of taxpayer money and you never even opened up the door. How do you sign up for this stuff. Show up Monday and learn that the Vision continues.

Hey! Are you an electric company? Hang some lights. $300,000. There may be more to it but you may want to confer with the Palms Fish Camp guy first.

My favorite. Piling removal at a kayak launch and that project jumped $50k in a month. Sounds like a two kegger to me. Heres the funny thing. You can't add pilings to this.

Hey, Governor Scott I'm crossing my fingers with you that the Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier (Shipyards III) is on the FIND list. If not the DIA/CRA in the USA can Make it Happen.

Ock, Lake, back  to your little train that could. We have heard that phrase. "Circle the Wagons." "Circle the Stadium."  I'm warming to rail. I just think that a straight shot down Bay St. With a streetcar to the stadium. What's going on with Adam St. Station? Could a streetcar track be connected or ran through Adam Street station and on a Gameday or special event swap out cars so the luxury car could be used? Just throwing it out there. I know easier said then done.

[Spence]

Attempting to stay on topic, I hope this is not considered a misplaced post.
I do not mean to "hijack".
In a recent thread someone mentioned linking all the core dining/drinking establishments.

If our office of Economic Development, JTA, and Downtown, Riverside, and San Marco folks put their heads together, who here feels like two busses running Thursday, Friday, Saturday, between the hours of late lunch/early happy hour/dinner - to late in the night (2-3am) on 45 minute headways could help?

like a larger, regular pubcrawl..?

A possible route I mapped:
Square 1,
Layla San Marco,
Matthew's,
Take Away Gourmet,
San Marco Theatre,
European St., San Marco,
Hurricanes,
Aix,
Sherwoods,
bb's,
King's Ave. garage and SkyWay stop,
Endo Exo,
Locals,
Wyndham,
Chart House,
Ruth's Chris,

over the Main St. bridge,

Hyatt,
Berkman,
TSI,
Underbelly,
FLorida Theatre,
LaCena (still open?)
The Landing via Laura St.,
Omni,
Skyline cafe,
Times Union Performing Arts Center,

Newly proposed Brooklyn SkyWay busstop at the Operations/Maintenance carbarn,

Forest St/Unity Plaza
Fidelity garage,
Riverside Arts Market,
Cummer,
Riverdale Inn,
Starbucks/Publix,
Black Sheep/Mossfire/O'Brothers/Sake House,
Sun-Ray Cinema,
loop around to Lomax (Tapa That),
Park St. to Pele's,
King St. to everything between Panda House to Salty Fig,
Intuition,
cork,
Bold City,
Gorrie/ZenCog/13 Gypsies

Back to San Marco via Park to Lee to Water with a stop at the Landing on the way?
perhaps Mr.Sleiman would even be appeased?
Thoughts?

What did I leave out?
How would you amend this route?

[thelakelander]

Transit doesn't make money. You'll be lucky to cover 30% of your operations and maintenance through fare collection. This means someone would have to subsidize a special limited service circulator that would only appeal to a percentage of a crowd that the majority will still drive to these various destinations.  I truly, feel that our entire bus system should be redesigned and that redesigned system should include routes with high frequencies that tie into various districts and proposed fixed transit lines, which will also penetrate several areas on your list.

[urbanlibertarian]

IMO the most likely way a shuttle like that would happen is if it was run by a private business and "subsidized" by businesses on the route.  O&M costs would be lower and the whole operation more flexible.

[urbanlibertarian]

BTW I was at Marks for New Years Eve and saw a private shuttle on Bay St.  My recollection of that night is a bit foggy.  Anyone know the story on that?

[JaxJag]

I DID NO HOMEWORK AT ALL but instead of going down riverside and making a kind of circle into the inbetween area of brooklyn and lavilla why wouldnt they figure a way to continue down park st. ? How far is riverside from park at any given point? It seems that it would be no more than 1/4 mile. It seems it could cut out a lot of possibly unnecessary line. And still get alll or most of the same area. I understand the majority of the workers/ big business is on riverside but IF its within "walking distance" why not. Is that even possible?