Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You

[Charles Hunter]

The city does have Traffic Engineers.  The City Traffic Engineering Dept. was abolished in the last Reorganization du Jour by the Little Prince, but the engineers are still there, in the Traffic Operations section (department, something).

I called to complain about State/Union being out of sync last week, and they said something had gone wrong, but it should be fixed by the end of the week.  Last time I went that way, Friday, it seemed back to normal.

[M104]

These cameras will never make it up without a change in Florida law. Currently, red light cameras are not legal under Florida law. This is due to the statutory requirement that a police officer be a witness to a traffic violation. From reading Gov. Crist's comments in the past, it doesn't sound like they are going to approve a law change. So if the City of Jacksonville is dumb enough to install these cameras and ticket someone, they will be paying those people back once a lawsuit is initiated.

The Minnesota Supreme Court ruled them illegal:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/news.asp?ID=1688&m=print

Gov. Crist says their illegal, even when moved to a civil infraction:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/news.asp?ID=1688&m=print

Unfortunately, due the falling State and local budgets, cash strapped schools that in some states reap a large percentage of "fines" are pushing for red-light cameras:
http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light-cameras/local-school-board-wants-ticket-camera-cash/

The NMA suggests the below instead and has independent and State (e.g., Virginia, AAA of Michigan, North Carolina, etc.) sanctioned studies that refute the usefulness of red-light cameras in reducing red-light runners or accidents:
http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/home/alternatives-to-red-light-cameras/
http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/home/studies/

Also the “Stop Red Light Running” Exposed As Corporate Lobbying Group:
http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light-cameras/stop-red-light-running-exposed-as-corporate-lobbying-group-2/

What a piece of ill-conceived legislation!

[blizz01]

OK, so to clarify, upon running the light (oops) @ Baymeadows & Southside this week, I need not worry about a subsequent "nastygram"/fine coming in the mail?  Are those cameras active?  Are they just to monitor for traffic flow/accidents?

[Charles Hunter]

If one of the streets is a state owned road (and both Baymeadows and Southside are), and you see cameras mounted on the signal poles, they are not red-light running cameras.  State law does not allow them on state roads.  I'm guessing those are something to do with controlling the traffic lights... or something.

When (if) the city does get around to putting up Red Light Cameras on state roads (and if I remember from the list, most of the selected intersections include at least one state owned road), they will have to put them on a city street or private property, somewhere near the intersection.

[Lunican]

Is the city really setting a good example by doing some questionable things to circumvent state law? I think I remember a Peyton sound byte, on another topic, where he insists that he will follow the letter and the spirit of the law.

[Charles Hunter]

Isn't it about The Revenue, didn't the camera vendor promise the City a revenue stream from these enforcement cameras?

[BridgeTroll]

Reading through this thread it seems like most here do not think that red light running in Jax is not a serious problem... WOW.  It is a huge problem and getting worse.  It is no longer one person "extending a green"... at most major intersections there are entire parades of cars blatantly running through reds.  This seems to occur most often for people turning left on a green arrow.  Not only is it a hazard for oncoming traffic but it is a huge danger for pedestrians and bicyclists.  In addition... the runners are disrupting the traffic flow for everybody else at the intersection.

Running the red is pure and simply... selfish.  Be on the lookout for me... I stop for yellow...

[gatorback]

If it's such a huge problem why doesn't JSO address this issue?

[BridgeTroll]

JSO???  Today... at a light... uniformed cop in marked car besides me.  Left hand turners parade past as our light turned green.  Atleast four of em... JSO could have easily turned right and pulled the last runner over.  Nope... JSO??  Hell... I see them doing it too!

[Lunican]

Were these cameras ever installed?

[gatorback]

BT: That is so one of my buttons.  Moral Anger.  They should be held to a higher standard then my dad.  Does JSO have that walking speed policy where you don't get a ticket if your slow down to a walking pace? Austin did it.

[Lunican]

Jacksonville awaits green light for red-light cameras

Red-light cameras were supposed to come to Jacksonville in 2007. That plan was indefinitely delayed when a City Hall lawyer determined that installing cameras at some of the major traffic intersections might violate Florida law.

Now, the possibility of installing the cameras might be coming back â€" if the Legislature can pass a law that would allow them on state right-of-ways.

Last month two Bradenton Republicans, Rep. Ron Reagan  and Sen. Mike Bennett,  introduced a bill that would do just that. The bill will be considered in next year’s legislative session and would allow cities and counties to install cameras that would photograph the license plates of cars and mail fines to the owners.

“If this passes, we can finally enforce the law we passed two years ago,” said City Councilman Stephen Joost,  who voted to allow the cameras in 2007.

After the city voted for the cameras, Howard Maltz,  deputy general counsel, recommended an indefinite delay because it was not clear if state law allowed it. Maltz feared the city would be sued if the cameras were installed.

That opinion was not shared by everyone. State law does not expressly allow or prohibit the cameras, and Orlando installed them this year â€" after its attorneys approved â€" joining at least 21 other Florida cities.

Maltz, though, said he stands by his opinion. A class-action suit filed this year is pending against Orlando and the other Florida cities and counties that have installed them, and Minneapolis just settled a class-action lawsuit for $2 million over its cameras.

“Considering the budget issues now facing the city, I don’t think this was a legal risk the city wanted to take,” Maltz said. He said attorneys in the class-action suit even contacted him to see if Jacksonville had installed the cameras.

However, the city supports the legislation proposed by Reagan and Bennett, Maltz said.
The Florida Department of Transportation has said it will not allow cameras in right-of-way areas on state roads unless and until there is a state law that specifically permits them.

Similar legislation has been introduced several times over the last few years, Reagan said, and the idea has wide support. But there have been and continue to be disagreements over who gets to keep the fine money. His bill splits the difference between state and local governments.


“A lot of local governments think they should get it all, and there are some people in the state legislature that think the state should get more than half,” Reagan said. “But hopefully this is a compromise that can work.”

Rep. Audrey Gibson,  D-Jacksonville, said the bill had a good chance of passing.

“It’s an idea that’s worthy of support,” she said. “I can tell you that a lot of people run the red light right outside my office in Jacksonville, so something needs to be done.”

Gibson said she thought the local governments should get most of the fine money, but could accept the bill Reagan has submitted.

“The state’s facing a budget deficit, and that money will be awfully tempting to some people when we try to balance the budget,” Gibson said.

Rep. Lake Ray,  R-Jacksonville, said he would support the bill but was cautious.

“The issue of who gets the money tends to complicate issues like this,” he said.
The effectiveness of red-light cameras is still being debated.

A 2008 University of South Florida study found that they increase accidents because drivers are more likely to come to a sudden stop, causing rear-end crashes. But the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety argues that national studies have found a 20 percent decrease in the most dangerous crashes, and a slight decrease in rear-end crashes.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-12-02/story/jacksonville_awaits_green_light_for_red_light_cameras

[urbanlibertarian]

From the CBS affiliate in LA: http://cbs2.com/goldstein/Red.Light.Cameras.2.1301941.html

Do Cameras Make Intersections More Dangerous?
Map: Frequency Of Accidents At Intersections With Red-Light Cameras
Reporting
David Goldstein
LOS ANGELES (CBS) ―

    Los Angeles presently has 32 intersections with active red-light cameras.

    * Map: Frequency Of Accidents At Intersections With Red-Light Cameras

Videos, provided to us by companies that sell red-light camera systems, show gruesome accidents and red light violators caught on tape. It is images like these that sell cities on the use of red light cameras.

The pitch is that these cameras will increase safety and reduce accidents. Also, the cities will make some money on the side at more than $400 a ticket!

In Los Angeles the LAPD claims accidents are down after they installed cameras, but are they telling the whole truth or just trying to make money off motorists?

We crunched the numbers and the results may surprise you.

"Your data is shocking to me," Sherman Ellison said.

Ellison is a ticket attorney and part time judge, who believes the cameras are there for one reason.

"No question. Purely a revenue generating device," Ellison said.

Is it money or safety? We wanted to know actual numbers of accidents at red light camera intersections to see if they really went down.

When we asked, the LAPD became very defensive. The sergeant in charge told me in an e-mail, "The city would hope that it is the goal of KCBS/KCAL to discuss the positive aspects of the photo red light program."

So we filed a public records request. The department charged us more than $500 for a computer run. When we got the numbers back, they told a different story.

We looked at every accident at every red light camera intersection for six months of data before the cameras were installed and six months after.

The final figures? Twenty of the 32 intersections show accidents up after the cameras were installed! Three remained the same and only nine intersections showed accidents decreasing.

At Manchester Avenue and Figueroa Street, accidents more than tripled from five before the cameras were installed to 16 afterwards. Westwood Boulevard and Wilshire Boulevard tripled from three to nine. At Rodeo Road and La Brea Avenue, collisions nearly tripled from seven in the six months before the cameras were installed to 20 in the same period afterwards.

The reason?

"People see the light flash and they slam on their brakes," Ellison said. "That's just human nature. As a result, more accidents, more rear end accidents."

That's what happened to Dale Stephens, who knew the yellow light up ahead had a camera.

"Because I had that in the back of my mind I knew I had to stop. And it's so expensive to get a ticket I knew I had to stop. Well they had no inclination to stop," Stephens said.

"They" are the two cars that hit him from behind.

David Goldstein: "Do you think the red light camera caused the accident?"

Dale Stephens: "Yes, definitely."

He's not alone. Study after study show that red-light cameras can actually cause accidents and some cities are taking notice.

Montclaire, Upland, El Monte and Fullerton all discontinued red-light cameras in part because of accidents. Huntington Beach broke its contract before it even officially began.

"There are quite a few studies out there that will show an increase in rear end accidents in these intersections," a spokesperson from the Huntington Beach Police said.

David Goldstein: "And that wasn't acceptable?"

"No, not as part of the total package."

"The use of red light cameras actually put the public at a greater risk," said University of South Florida professor, Dr. John Large.

Dr. Large looked at all the studies and came to one conclusion.

"Our opinion is that there is quite a lot of money to be made with the use of these cameras," Dr. John Large said.

Los Angeles made over $4 million in 2008 on violators caught on red light cameras.

But the LAPD says it is safety, not money. They say accidents are down. They showed me statistics putting the drop at nearly 34 percent.

But they only count collisions caused by someone going through the red light, not by rear end accidents or any others at an intersection.

"It would be improper to draw a correlation between all accidents going up and the red light cameras," a spokesperson from the LAPD said.

"We need the overall picture," Los Angeles Councilman Dennis Zine said.

Councilman Zine says all accidents should be evaluated. He had been told accidents were down due to the cameras and didn't know the LAPD was excluding many collisions until I told him.

"If that's the case, we need to re-evaluate this program if in fact we are having more collisions," Councilman Zine said.

He says he will take the issue to the City Council because the contract for the cameras is up soon. And if they conclude, as we did, that accidents are up, the red light cameras may soon be coming down.

Map: Frequency Of Accidents At Intersections With Red-Light Cameras


(© MMIX, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

[urbanlibertarian]

From USF Health: http://hscweb3.hsc.usf.edu/health/now/?p=404

Public Health Researchers Take Closer Look at Red-light Cameras

Posted By abaier On March 11, 2008 @ 11:43 am In College of Public Health, Press Releases, Research Really Matters | Comments Disabled

    - Public Health Researchers Take A Closer Look @ Cameras & Traffic Lights. Researchers recommend engineering solutions to improve intersection safety -

Tampa, FL (March 11, 2008) -- Rather than improving motorist safety, red-light cameras significantly increase crashes and are a ticket to higher auto insurance premiums, researchers at the University of South Florida College of Public Health conclude. The effective remedy to red-light running uses engineering solutions to improve intersection safety, which is particularly important to Florida’s elderly drivers, the researchers recommend.

The report was published this month in the Florida Public Health Review, the online journal of the college and the Florida Public Health Association.

    "The rigorous studies clearly show red-light cameras don’t work,” said lead author Barbara Langland-Orban, professor and chair of health policy and management at the USF College of Public Health.

“Instead, they increase crashes and injuries as drivers attempt to abruptly stop at camera intersections. If used in Florida, cameras could potentially create even worse outcomes due to the state’s high percent of elderly who are more likely to be injured or killed when a crash occurs.”

Red-light cameras photograph violators who are then sent tickets in the mail. Hillsborough County Commissioners unanimously agreed earlier this month to install the cameras at several major intersections in the county. The devices could be adopted by more cities and counties if Florida legislators pave the way by changing a state law this spring.

The USF report highlights trends in red-light running in Florida, summarizes major studies, and analyzes the automobile insurance industry’s financial interest in cameras. Among the findings:

• Traffic fatalities caused by red-light running are not increasing in Florida and account for less than 4 percent of the state’s yearly traffic deaths. In contrast, more than 22 percent of the state’s traffic fatalities occur at intersections for reasons other than red-light running.

    • The injury rate from red-light running crashes has dropped by a third in less than a decade, indicating red-light running crashes have been continually declining in Florida without the use of cameras.

• Comprehensive studies from North Carolina, Virginia, and Ontario have all reported cameras are significantly associated with increases in crashes, as well as crashes involving injuries. The study by the Virginia Transportation Research Council also found that cameras were linked to increased crash costs.

• Some studies that conclude cameras reduced crashes or injuries contained major “research design flaws,” such as incomplete data or inadequate analyses, and were conducted by researchers with links to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. The IIHS, funded by automobile insurance companies, is the leading advocate for red-light cameras. Insurers can profit from red-light cameras, since their revenues will increase when higher premiums are charged due to the crash and citation increase, the researchers say.

Langland-Orban said the findings have been known for some time. She cites a 2001 paper by the Office of the Majority Leader, U.S. House of Representatives, reporting that red-light cameras are “a hidden tax levied on motorists.” The report concluded cameras are associated with increased crashes, the timings at yellow lights are often set too short to increase tickets for red-light running, and most research concluding cameras are effective was conducted by one researcher from the IIHS. Since then, studies independent of the automobile insurance industry continue to find cameras are associated with large increases in crashes.

    Red-light running can be reduced by engineering improvements that address factors such as signal visibility and timings, wet roads and traffic flow, the USF researchers say.

The researchers suggest local governments follow the state’s lead in designing roads and improving intersections to accommodate elderly drivers, which would ultimately benefit all drivers.

Etienne Pracht, PhD, and John Large, PhD, were the other authors of the USF public policy report. To view the report -- Red-Light Running Cameras: Would Crashes, Injuries and Automobile Insurance Rates Increase If They Are Used in Florida? -- visit [1] http://hsc.usf.edu/publichealth/fphr/

- USF Health -

USF Health is dedicated to creating a model of health care based on understanding the full spectrum of health. It includes the University of South Florida’s colleges of medicine, nursing, and public health; the schools of biomedical sciences as well as physical therapy & rehabilitation sciences; and the USF Physicians Group. With $308 million in research funding last year, USF is one of the nation’s top 63 public research universities and one of Florida’s top three research universities.

- News release by Anne DeLotto Baier/USF Health Communications

[reednavy]

Watch out over the coming months.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/23549395/detail.html