Kim Daniels demon healing video

[Cheshire Cat]

I hear what you are saying Ron.  I personally feel that those who would seek her out are in need of some sort of emotional support and validation. For a moment they may feel that when her attention is on them.  My personal concern is that her superstitions and beliefs are so extreme that she can actually infer those fears onto those helpless or mentally unstable people who come to her.  I mean this woman Daniels sees demons everywhere and in everything including the poor folks who turn to her.  Telling someone who is mentally ill or drug addicted they are possessed is a very scary thing in my view and could cause permanent trauma to them. 

Remember that we are talking about the woman who stood up in open council and argued against GLBT legislation sighting people having sex with corpses in Egypt.  I don't care who you are, but anyone who goes around with this garbage in their head and is then foolish enough to voice it in a City Council meeting is not displaying good judgement in my view and someone like that should not be in a position of helping others to decide what is healthy and unhealthy spiritually or otherwise.




Diane M.

[ronchamblin]

I hear what you are saying Ron.  I personally feel that those who would seek her out are in need of some sort of emotional support and validation and for a moment they may feel that when her attention is on them.  My personal concern is that her superstitions and beliefs are so extreme that she can actually infer those fears onto those helpless or mentally unstable people who come to her.  I mean this woman Daniels sees demons everywhere and in everything including the poor folks who turn to her.  Telling someone who is mentally ill or drug addicted they are possessed is a very scary thing in my view and could cause permanent trauma to them. 

Remember that we are talking about the woman who stood up in open council and argued against GLBT legislation sighting people having sex with corpses in Egypt.  I don't care who you are, but anyone who goes around with this garbage in their head and is then foolish enough to voice it in a City Council meeting is not displaying good judgement in my view.




Diane M.

I'll go along with that.  Unfortunately her apparent successes with some individuals are mostly temporary.  And too, to encourage the existence of demons etc is not the best way to bring someone toward recognizing important realities of life.  This kind of avoidance of truth, such as with the creationism positions, and with other religious teachings, is one of my pet peeves.  But that is another story, which people know about already. 

[Ocklawaha]

"HEAL THE SICK, RAISE THE DEAD, CLEANSE THE LEPERS, CAST OUT DEMONS..." While that might sound pretty "Christian," those exact words are the tenets of Christian Science, which is neither "Christian" or "Scientific." Running in circles and shouting at demons (real or imagined) doesn't make one a Christian any more then going to a McDonalds makes on a hamburger.

The Nicene Creed (Latin: Symbolum Nicaenum) is the creed or profession of faith (Greek: Σύμβολον τῆς Πίστεως) that is most widely used in Christian liturgy. It is called Nicene ( /ˈnaɪsiːn/) because, in its original form, it was adopted in the city of Nicaea (İznik in what is now Turkey) by the first ecumenical council, which met there in the year 325.

The Nicene Creed has been normative for the Anglican Church, the Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Oriental Orthodox churches, the Roman Catholic Church including the Eastern Catholic Churches, the Old Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church and Baptists and many Protestant denominations, forming the eponymous mainstream definition of Christianity itself in Nicene Christianity.

NICENE CREED

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I would like to hear her take on the Nicene Creed based on the statements she made about the cross. She obviously never saw "The Exorcist" in which the cross was used extensively to cleanse the demons from Linda Blair. A church or pastor that doesn't recognize the significance of the cross, is a church or pastor that is living outside of the joint councils of Christendom dating back to the year 325.

As Ron so eloquently pointed out, sometimes a great deal of good comes out of some pretty ignorant or primitive beliefs. Drug addicts healed, prostitutes rescued, and lives can be reformed with the support of many different groups that share common beliefs.  I too have no problem with her preaching or teaching whatever she desires, I also don't mind the head of a successful church or ministry earning a living commensurate with their education, and the size of the flock, or organization they administer.

What I mind is anyone misrepresenting themselves as Christian, while picking and choosing which parts of the Creed they'll accept. The other problem I have with such "ministers" is the carnival atmosphere they create while supposedly doing Christ's work. According to the Bible, Jesus healed many people, but there is not a single example of him doing so by creating a circus. So there are some huge red flags beyond the apparent chicanery.

Ron does however touch lightly on a subject which I'd like to see tackled by a group of concerned citizens, ministers, churches, hospitals and our business community. Prostitution for many who work the streets is a symptom of years of sexual abuse. Sexual harassment, verbal abuse, stalking, rape, battering and torture are all types of violence that prostituted women regularly experience.*

Women in prostitution have a death rate that is 40 times higher than women who are not involved in prostitution.**

Sixty-eight percent of prostituted women meet the criteria for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) in the same range as combat veterans and victims of torture.***

Let's remember that young men can be just as effected. I've spoken with both the Sheriff and the precinct captain for the urban core and both are interested in forming a rescue project.

* Melissa Farley, Prostitution Is Sexual Violence, Psychiatric Times. Vol. 21 No. 12, October 1, 2004
** Chris Grussendorf, "No Humans Involved, Part One", http://www.catwinternational.org/factbook/usa2_prost.php
*** Melissa Farley, et al. 2003. “Prostitution and Trafficking in Nine Countries: An Update on Violence and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder.” Journal of Trauma Practice, Vol. 2, No. 3/4: 33-74.

[Cheshire Cat]

I hear what you are saying Ron.  I personally feel that those who would seek her out are in need of some sort of emotional support and validation and for a moment they may feel that when her attention is on them.  My personal concern is that her superstitions and beliefs are so extreme that she can actually infer those fears onto those helpless or mentally unstable people who come to her.  I mean this woman Daniels sees demons everywhere and in everything including the poor folks who turn to her.  Telling someone who is mentally ill or drug addicted they are possessed is a very scary thing in my view and could cause permanent trauma to them. 

Remember that we are talking about the woman who stood up in open council and argued against GLBT legislation sighting people having sex with corpses in Egypt.  I don't care who you are, but anyone who goes around with this garbage in their head and is then foolish enough to voice it in a City Council meeting is not displaying good judgement in my view.




Diane M.

I'll go along with that.  Unfortunately her apparent successes with some individuals are mostly temporary.  And too, to encourage the existence of demons etc is not the best way to bring someone toward recognizing important realities of life.  This kind of avoidance of truth, such as with the creationism positions, and with other religious teachings, is one of my pet peeves.  But that is another story, which people know about already. 

When a religious doctrine or practice removes personal responsibility and action from an individual and their relationship with creation, I have a problem with that. When a religious doctrine would replace your own truth with one they prefer you to believe I have a problem with that. When a religious doctrine tells people there is only one path to enlightenment and if you don't follow it you will burn in hell....well,  I have a big problem with that.  I think it is a very risky thing to step away from your own inner understanding and personal belief system and turn it over to another individual or organization to have them instead interpret or dictate beliefs to you.  Truth and the perception of it is a very personal thing as are belief systems.   I also know however that people can embrace a religious or spiritual belief system and not give up who they are in the process.  In other words I am saying do your own reading, research and live a variety of experiences personally if what you believe or don't believe spiritually it is going to be the entire basis of your being.

I fully respect the rights of individuals to believe or not believe as they will and practice the religion of their choice as long as their own religion does not become the standard bearer for all others.  I for instance would make a very poor evangelical because my heart knows that if what is being shared is good, pure and true, people will not have to be converted or indoctrinated to it, but will in fact migrate to the truth that their heart recognizes as right and balanced.  This can be very different from individual to individual. 

I should tell you Ron, that "I don't believe", but instead "know" there is much more to our human experience than what we physically and intellectually recognize.  I have known this to be reality since my earliest memory and experience in this lifetime and have personally lived experiences worldwide that others would think impossible and certainly beyond a closed reality thinking.  We are part of a wonderful and mysterious, multilevel universe and creation that is inherent in a soul  consciousness and not bound by our intellectual understanding of reality.  Having said that, I also understand that some will not or cannot recognize what science cannot measure and quantify for them.  I would remind them however, that science is not even close to understanding how to measure all that is.  Which is why we hear much of "scientific theory" along with "scientific fact" and what was once believed to be scientific fact has proved to be otherwise or something else.   I often think about Jesus and what he so tried to teach people which was not a religion but rather simply to love unconditionally, be fair of mind, share and honor that which created us.  He called the Creator, his "Father" which was within the understanding of people of his day.  So some folks thought this creator, "God", was an old man sitting on a cloud in heaven.  The reality is that the Creator and creation are not as we imagine but something far, far beyond human understanding but something that  can be touched by simply looking within.  No man, woman, preacher, priest or holy person is necessary to connect with all that is in consciousness and soul.  I think that is the thing that most scares organized religion and perhaps influences agnostics as well when it comes to admitting there is something larger than ourselves. That understanding carries with it a personal responsibility and takes power from the institutions that have become both strong and rich over the centuries through their membership and followers.  When we believe that we are connected to all that is we must also then acknowledge that we are personally responsible for our own actions, our lives and how those actions impact everything else in creation.  Letting someone else do the research, interpretation and understanding of our reality for many is the easiest course of action requiring the least personal responsibility.  I often think that Jesus would be awfully tired of people asking him to do this, that or the other thing when it was he who told them "If ye but believed, ye could move mountains". 

Religion like so many other things is a two edged sword that can create good things or destroy all that it touches.  I think something that powerful should be measured in one's own heart and not given over to another individual no matter what position of religious power they have assumed. 



Diane Melendez

[Cheshire Cat]

Ock, I was going to go to bed early tonight but this conversation is getting more and more interesting.    I am glad you spoke of the Nicene Creed and that it was what the basic tenants of Christianity were distilled down to.  What many may not realize is the process that gave Christians this creed also dismissed and discarded volumes upon volumes of documents with many other views of what God is or is not.  Ultimately, nearly everything, document, prayer, holy book or religious practice has first been filtered through the lens of personal understanding and beliefs of human beings.  Even more astounding is the reality that most of these documents were transcribed long after all these teachings were allegedly shared.  When one factors in differing times, differing languages and interpretations it becomes evident quite quickly that very little of what is presented to us via holy teachings today is as it was given in it's original form. 

In referencing Kim's past of prostitution and drugs I am not attempting to belittle her personal experiences.  I do understand that many different things can cause a person to work the streets or take drugs.  I bring them up specifically with regard to Ms. Daniels because she is the topic of this particular thread.  Only she knows what drove her to the streets and drugs and that is a personal experience she chose to make public as the basis of her own call to service if you will.   I believe she has convinced herself that what she is doing is good and powerful in a way that feeds her addictive nature and desire to have control over her life and the lives of others.  That is where good intentions can become dangerous realities for many whom she has believing they are possessed by devils or demons.  That is not a good thing, but can be a very dangerous thing for a weak, uneducated or ill mind.  In the same way a person could be motivated to heal by such a practice one could also be harmed.  In this case the one doing the delivering has expressed some very, very bizarre beliefs that are way outside of what most would consider rational.



Diane M.

[Timkin]

"Doing God's Work"   Interesting analogy.


Mother Teresa  did God's work too.  She certainly didn't make millions doing so.   Perhaps one of the most selfless mortals that ever walked this planet.

In contrast.. Ms. Daniels may be "healing" others... but shes making a damn tidy profit at the same time. 

I have a hard time buying the validity of this woman.