86 parking meters Downtown!

[If_I_Loved_you]

Show me a big city downtown in Duval County that has a situation that requires parking meters?  It sure isn't Jacksonville's Northbank.  Small cities like Winter Park, Sarasota, and Lakeland have more vibrant downtown cores.

Up the street, another example of a city that is finding out people don't like to be penalized to visit downtown is Savannah. For those who want to bum a profit off visitors, Savannah's downtown environment would be ideal. However, that city is another one that has pulled meters off their main retail and dining streets to encourage more people to visit the area.


Savannah

At the end of the day, we have to ask ourselves what type of downtown do we want?  We aren't NYC. Heck, we aren't even St. Augustine.  Penalizing people to visit a morbid downtown environment isn't going to help accomplish the goal of bringing it back to life.  All it is, is another obstacle to overcome, all for what amounts to probably less than a couple of million a year.  In terms of having a billion dollar budget, that's peanuts.

Parking in Savannah, Ga. http://www.savannah.com/parking-in-savannah/

Parking In Savannah



METERED PARKING â€" There are 3,000 parking meters in the Historic District with time limits ranging from 30 minutes to 10 hours. The cost per hour varies with locations and ranges from $.30 to $1.00 per hour.
Free parking at meters on Saturday and Sunday.

VISITOR DAYPASS â€" Visitors may purchase a two-day parking pass for $12, or a single day parking pass for $7 from the Savannah Visitors Center or the Mobility & Parking Services Department.
This pass authorizes free parking on meters of one hour or more, free parking in the City’s lots and parking garages upon availability, and allows exceeding the time limit in time-limit zones. Visitor DayPasses must be filled out with appropriate information to be valid and will not be honored during special events.

DISABILITY PARKING â€" The City provides disability parking spaces for the exclusive use of vehicles displaying the appropriate permit. The spaces are located in all areas of the City and include free spaces as well as metered spaces. These spaces are located on-street throughout the City, in City owned garages, and in City-operated lots such as the River Street parking lots. The disability permit spaces in the Historic District all require payment for parking.

PARKING GARAGES

Bryan Street Garage
(912) 651-6477 â€" Bryan and Abercorn Streets.
Hours of Operation: 24 hours a day/7 days a week.
Daily Rates: $1 per hour or portion thereof, maximum $10.
Evening Rates: Monday-Friday 6PM to 7AM, flat rate of $2. Before 6PM and after 7AM, the daily rate applies.
Weekend Rates: From 7AM Saturday until 7AM Sunday, a flat rate of $3 per day. From 7AM Sunday until 7AM Monday, a flat rate of $3 per day, after 7AM the daily rate applies.

State Street Garage
(912) 651-6473 â€" State and Abercorn Streets.
Hours of Operation: Sunday-Friday, 5AM until 1AM. Saturday, 5AM until 5AM.
Daily Rates: $1 per hour or portion thereof, maximum $10.
Evening Rates: Monday-Friday, 6PM until closing, flat rate of $2. Before 6PM and after 7AM, the daily rate applies.
Weekend Rates: 5AM Saturday until 5AM Sunday, a flat rate of $3 per day. 5AM Sunday until 1AM Monday, a flate rate of $3 per day, after 1AM, the daily rate applies.

Robinson Garage
(912) 651-6478 â€" York and Montgomery Streets.
Hours of Operation: 24 hours a day/7 days a week.
Daily Rates: $1 per hour or portion thereof, maximum $10 per day.
Evening Rates: Monday-Friday, 6PM to 7AM, flat rate of $2. Before 6PM and after 7AM, the daily rate applies.
Weekend Rates: 7AM Saturday until 7AM Sunday, a flat rate of $3 per day. 7AM Sunday until 7AM Monday, a flat rate of $3 per day, after 7AM, the daily rate applies.

Liberty Street Garage
(912) 644-5934 â€" Liberty and Montgomery Streets.
Hours of Operation: Sunday-Friday, 5AM until 1AM. Saturday, 5AM until 3AM.
Daily Rates: $1 per hour or portion thereof, maximum $10.
Evening Rates: Monday-Friday, 6PM until closing, flat rate of $2, Before 6PM and after 7AM, the daily rate applies.
Weekend Rates: 5AM saturday until 3AM Sunday, a flat rate of $1 per day. 5AM Sunday until 1AM Monday, a flat rate of $1 per day, after 1AM, the daily rate applies.

Whitaker Street Garage
(912) 525-2820 â€" Whitaker Street just past Bay Lane.
Hours of Operation: 24 hours a day/7 days a week.
Daily Rates: $2 per hour, maximum daily rate $16 per day.
Monthly Rates: Monday-Friday, 5AM until 8PM, $80. Unlimited access during hours of operation, $95. Reserved space, unlimited access 24/7, $280.

Special Event Rates For All Garages â€" $5 to $20 depending on event

(912) 651-6470 • savannahga.gov

This information courtesy of City of Savannah Mobility and Parking Services.

[Pinky]

Pinky, which major regional shopping mall uses parking meters?

Probably all of the ones that have to protect their short-term parking from the hordes of long-term employee and resident parkers who would otherwise use up all the "good spaces" and discourage shoppers from even coming?? 

Got any other pointless rhetorical questions or tortured analogies for me; I so look forward to them from you when I post.

[thelakelander]

If_I_Love_U, instead of cutting and pasting that, reread my post and pull up a corresponding map and let us know where the on-street meters are located on the main retail and dining corridors.

[urbanlibertarian]

IMO the 2 things that stand in the way of ditching the meters (which I as a DT resident favor) are 1. finding money in an already challenged COJ budget to fund parking enforcement minus the revenue from meters and 2. the people invested in the status quo namely businesses that rent/lease parking spaces and COJ employees that maintain the meters.

[thelakelander]

Pinky, which major regional shopping mall uses parking meters?

Probably all of the ones that have to protect their short-term parking from the hordes of long-term employee and resident parkers who would otherwise use up all the "good spaces" and discourage shoppers from even coming?? 

A few questions. First, what residents? This isn't Chicago. We have less than 3,000 residents stretching over two miles from Brooklyn to Commodore Point. On top of that, every place of decent size has it's own dedicated parking, due to our auto centric market.

Second, what downtown workers? We have less than 19k in the Northbank and half of our garages are half empty now. Taking away pay meters but still keeping enforcement isn't going to kill this city. I'm just not following the logic of people avoiding downtown if they aren't first forced to pay for short term parking for the privilege of visiting a morbid environment.

[thelakelander]

IMO the 2 things that stand in the way of ditching the meters (which I as a DT resident favor) are 1. finding money in an already challenged COJ budget to fund parking enforcement minus the revenue from meters

Removing pay meters doesn't mean you remove enforcement.  So if they were removed, we'd have to separate the little revenue they generate from parking fines.  Then, the purpose of removing meters would be to make the area more attractive for business.  Assuming that's successful, a vibrant downtown would have significantly higher property values over a dead one with meters.  So the question would be if the resulting increase in tax rolls would out weigh the loss of cash generated by meters?

and 2. the people invested in the status quo namely businesses that rent/lease parking spaces and COJ employees that maintain the meters.

I'm not sure how either of these two are greatly impacted if you still have time limited parking.  Businesses that rent/lease parking spaces do that to have 24/7 dedicated parking for their businesses.  Neither metered or non-meter time limited spaces are dedicated spaces.

Btw, the funny thing about this discussion is metered parking has been a major complaint of downtown businesses since the 1950s.  Today, we still have the meters but the vibrant retail district is literally a shell of its former self.  The Northbank is so morbid now that the TIF it has continues to lose money because Northbank property values are lower than they were in the 1980s, when it was created.  Why continue going down the path of 60 years of decline?  What are we trying to prove?

[marksjax]

I am with Lake and Stephen on this. The status quo just isn 't working. What is lost by trying something new and different? Why be afraid of change?
Ron, I see your points and perhaps there is some way to insure the core area ( near HP) is not inundated by employees of the city taking up the free or honor system spaces.

For any DT residents they should be incentivized for being a 'pioneer' and be given a parking pass to park 'where you want to (DT). Give folks an incentive to move DT, etc.

I am using the old courthouse area ( east bay st) as my example here (but think it should apply to all of DT). Point being I could rarely find a spot to park in front of the old courthouse when it was open. Now it 's quite easy anytime of day.
Recently the city removed the brand new credit card meters and replaced them with the old style meters. The newer ones I am guessing were put nearer the new courthouse. If this is true this is evidence the city knows the parking revenue on east bay would now be a shadow of it's former self, which, by my casual observation, must be true.

Why not try something radical like removing the parking meters?
What really have we got to lose?

I know first hand what DT used to be like & it's not like that ( busy and vibrant with activity/retail) anymore. We should not run DT like  this is 1970. It's time for an overhaul DT and removal of impediments ( such as draconian & antiquated parking measures) & start fresh.

Status Quo has failed. Time for a new direction & not just parking.

[Ocklawaha]

http://www.youtube.com/v/AfxQRFbx5Ss?version=3&hl=en_US
I just had to dig this out of our archives, a classic piece arranged by our own Stephendare. BRAVO STEPHEN!

Pinky, there is nothing controlled by metered parking that a simple "2 HOUR PARKING" sign couldn't control. Enforcement remains the same, it simply invites more people to use downtown.

Back when all of the major big box stores had downtown locations the people were given a choice. People could shop downtown and pay by the minute, with a ever present risk of going 5 minutes over and getting a hefty fine, or go to a mall with acres of unlimited free parking. The people voted with their feet tires and downtown's everywhere fell into a tailspin.

Imagine how you would feel if you invested in a nice store in San Marco, then I come along and tell you I'm going to charge your patrons for the decision to shop with you.

[marksjax]

That video is most excellent! Very impressive Mr. Dare!

[If_I_Loved_you]

If_I_Love_U, instead of cutting and pasting that, reread my post and pull up a corresponding map and let us know where the on-street meters are located on the main retail and dining corridors.

Do it yourself!

[thelakelander]

Lol, don't need to.  I already provided an image of downtown Savannah's main commercial corridor illustrating free two hour parking, proving my point that they have been removing meters to encourage business growth. 

However, what I will do is post an image of another city that has also pulled up meters to encourage more retail along its main strip.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Lol, don't need to.  I already provided an image of downtown Savannah's main commercial corridor illustrating free two hour parking, proving my point that they have been removing meters to encourage business growth. 

However, what I will do is post an image of another city that has also pulled up meters to encourage more retail along its main strip.

Free two hour parking once a day in the Red Zone, isn't all day unless its the weekend!

[Ocklawaha]

Free all day parking would fail because downtown residents and workers could easily abuse the facilities. Two hour parking and various other temporal restrictions where warranted would do as much as any meter without the stigma of paying a fine for the use of said space.

Customers happy, business booms, downtown comes back to life. 

[If_I_Loved_you]

Free all day parking would fail because downtown residents and workers could easily abuse the facilities. Two hour parking and various other temporal restrictions where warranted would do as much as any meter without the stigma of paying a fine for the use of said space.

Customers happy, business booms, downtown comes back to life.

Do you really see the day when Downtown Jacksonville Florida really comes back to life other then some retail stores and places that feed the downtown workers?

[marksjax]

The parking meters are just one example of a physical change that MIGHT be a help to make DT more inviting to visit.
No guarantees it would help. Having said that, if nothing drastic (like no meters) is ever tried I seriously doubt you would see any improvement either.
DT needs bold ideas & action today. Not another five years to talk about what it needs.
DIA I am talking to you. Don't be another lame level of bureaucracy. Action now!
(your meter is running so to speak, lol).