Skyway Extension - Stadium

[thelakelander]

It doesn't have to be a necessary evil, unless we force something elevated down that corridor.

That has been the plan since the skyway's inception.  We would once again be tossing aside working planning documents after completing half of it.

There are no working documents for any expansion of the skyway.  Even if there were, they'd be 20-30 years old and out of date. Anything at this point, would have to be designed and developed from scratch.

We've all touted time and time again that Jax has a bad habit of half baked and unfinished plans.  Why continue that pattern?

Because we know better now, the urban landscape has changed, and different technologies have evolved that we can take advantage of.  I wouldn't recommend extending the Hart Bridge Expressway to the beach or the Acosta Bridge through LaVilla to I-95 either. 1970s Jax and 2010s Jax are completely different animals and should be treated as such.

I have heard grumblings about Detroit's system, although you tend to hear the negatives first.

I've ridden it several times over the last decade.  The grumblings are legit.  It should benefit from the addition of the modern streetcar penetrating downtown, which will feed riders into it.

[Ocklawaha]

There are no working documents for any expansion of the skyway.  Even if there were, they'd be 20-30 years old and out of date. Anything at this point, would have to be designed and developed from scratch.

According to JTA, there was some drawings (perhaps renderings)  and preliminary engineering. I agree that we would need to revise or remake those plans, but I've got a lot of industry contacts that would likely be more then happy to give us some ball park estimates, suggestions, and conceptual'

Armed with such documentation should make it easier to reopen conversation at the city level.

[Jason]

There are no working documents for any expansion of the skyway.  Even if there were, they'd be 20-30 years old and out of date. Anything at this point, would have to be designed and developed from scratch.

Good point.  Which is why it would be a good idea to lock down these potential transit corridors as soon as possible, regardless of the type of system. 

Because we know better now, the urban landscape has changed, and different technologies have evolved that we can take advantage of.  I wouldn't recommend extending the Hart Bridge Expressway to the beach or the Acosta Bridge through LaVilla to I-95 either. 1970s Jax and 2010s Jax are completely different animals and should be treated as such.

True.  But setting aside the historic three block stretch of Bay Street, what other negatives do you see with a skyway extension running through there?  There shouldn't be any visual detractors given that most of the corridor is practically a clean slate or already fairly modern.

[Jason]

There are no working documents for any expansion of the skyway.  Even if there were, they'd be 20-30 years old and out of date. Anything at this point, would have to be designed and developed from scratch.

According to JTA, there was some drawings (perhaps renderings)  and preliminary engineering. I agree that we would need to revise or remake those plans, but I've got a lot of industry contacts that would likely be more then happy to give us some ball park estimates, suggestions, and conceptual'

Armed with such documentation should make it easier to reopen conversation at the city level.

Those rumored plans would be solid gold right now. 

And just continuing the chatter and discussions here should help to reinvigorate a large population to support our transit initiatives.  I've really enjoyed this conversation and feel that we are easily working out all of the possibilities to come up with something that will fit perfectly with the vision of what Jax is destined to be.  And we're doing it for FREE! 

[thelakelander]

There are no working documents for any expansion of the skyway.  Even if there were, they'd be 20-30 years old and out of date. Anything at this point, would have to be designed and developed from scratch.

According to JTA, there was some drawings (perhaps renderings)  and preliminary engineering. I agree that we would need to revise or remake those plans, but I've got a lot of industry contacts that would likely be more then happy to give us some ball park estimates, suggestions, and conceptual'

Armed with such documentation should make it easier to reopen conversation at the city level.

I'd suggest you go ahead and proceed with your contacts to come up with a ballpark estimate.  That would be needed first to lobby JTA and anyone else to seriously consider discussing potential skyway extensions anytime soon.

[thelakelander]

Because we know better now, the urban landscape has changed, and different technologies have evolved that we can take advantage of.  I wouldn't recommend extending the Hart Bridge Expressway to the beach or the Acosta Bridge through LaVilla to I-95 either. 1970s Jax and 2010s Jax are completely different animals and should be treated as such.

True.  But setting aside the historic three block stretch of Bay Street, what other negatives do you see with a skyway extension running through there?  There shouldn't be any visual detractors given that most of the corridor is practically a clean slate or already fairly modern.

My major concern would be capital and long term operational costs, potential for economic development and public ROI.  Also, it's very well known that downtown (and the skyway) needs better fixed transit connectivity with surrounding urban neighborhoods. We also know, that the skyway isn't the best or most efficient mode to penetrate these neighborhoods, meaning there will be alternative modes in the picture. Whether those connections are streetcar, LRT, commuter rail, etc., they aren't going to simply terminate at the skyway's end points.  Thus, there will be penetration into the downtown area, which provides us with the opportunity to use these modes to serve areas where the skyway doesn't exist.  So how various neighborhoods tie together on a larger level will also impact the idea of expanding the skyway in any direction. 

With these issues as concerns, I'm not so willing to completely eliminate all alternatives in favor of extending the skyway (as conceived) to the stadium, simply because we have it a mile down the street.  I strongly believe that there are a lot of questions that need to be answered to come to that final decision.

[Jason]

My major concern would be capital and long term operational costs, potential for economic development and public ROI.  Also, it's very well known that downtown (and the skyway) needs better fixed transit connectivity with surrounding urban neighborhoods. We also know, that the skyway isn't the best or most efficient mode to penetrate these neighborhoods, meaning there will be alternative modes in the picture. Whether those connections are streetcar, LRT, commuter rail, etc., they aren't going to simply terminate at the skyway's end points.  Thus, there will be penetration into the downtown area, which provides us with the opportunity to use these modes to serve areas where the skyway doesn't exist.  So how various neighborhoods tie together on a larger level will also impact the idea of expanding the skyway in any direction.

The capital and long term costs may be the only negative because the right-of-way and potential for economic development would likely be the same.  There is plenty of TOD space available that could offset station costs by tying them right into the development.  Our convention center concept is a good example of that (regardless of the type of transit).

Because we know what a streetcar line would look like on Bay street I might throw together a rendering of what the skyway would look like tied into the CC with a station built right in.  Can't say how soon that will happen though.

[thelakelander]

Sounds good.  Can't wait to see it.