City to install 66 Traffic Violation Cameras at City Intersections?

[Lunican]

This is pretty interesting:

Others worry about safety. Red-light cameras are supposed to make us safer by discouraging people from running red lights. The trouble is that they work too well. Numerous studies have found that when these cameras are put in place, rear-end collisions increase dramatically. Drivers who once might have stretched the light a bit now slam on their brakes for fear of getting a ticket, with predictable results. A study of red-light cameras in Washington, D.C., by The Washington Post found that despite producing more than 500,000 tickets (and generating over $32 million in revenues), red-light cameras didn't reduce injuries or collisions. In fact, the number of accidents increased at the camera-equipped intersections.

Likewise, red-light cameras in Portland, Ore., produced a 140 percent increase in rear-end collisions at monitored intersections, and a study by the Virginia Transportation Research Council found that although red-light cameras decreased collisions resulting from people running traffic lights, they significantly increased accidents overall.

This problem can be aggravated by jurisdictions that shorten the duration of yellow lights, apparently to generate more ticket revenue. Last year, CBS News reported on an especially egregious case in Maryland: A traffic-camera intersection had a 2.7-second yellow light, while nearby intersections had 4-second times. Shorter yellow lights are more dangerous--but shorter yellow lights plus traffic cameras generate revenue.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/upgrade/2420766.html

[gatorback]

To combat the problem of overzealous municipalities turning speed traps into an endless revenue source, the Florida Legislature passed a law capping the amounts that municipalities can collect from traffic law violations.

[Lunican]

Also, there is an organized group in the UK that has dedicated themselves to destroying all traffic cameras.

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/index2.htm

I wonder how many times Jacksonville would be willing to replace them if that started happening here?

[Driven1]

i think we should have a "camera intersection map" like they have here, if they install them...

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/speedmap.htm

[Lunican]

I imagine the city council hasn't looked into it, but there are a lot of studies on these camera. The only people that claim a reduction in accidents seems to be the camera manufacturers and city officials looking for a new revenue source.

Red Light Camera Studies Roundup
A collection of red light camera studies over the last decade shows red light cameras have serious side-effects.

Over the past decade, a number of studies have examined the use of red light cameras. The most relevant studies examined the devices in light of changes in traffic and engineering conditions made at intersections during the study period and pulled actual police reports to examine the particular causes of each collision. The following studies are the most comprehensive available:

A 2007 Virginia Department of Transportation study found:
"The cameras were associated with an increase in total crashes... The aggregate EB results suggested that this increase was 29%... The cameras were associated with an increase in the frequency of injury crashes... The aggregate EB results suggested an 18% increase, although the point estimates for individual jurisdictions were substantially higher (59%, 79%, or 89% increases) or lower (6% increase or a 5% decrease)."

A 2006 Winnipeg, Canada city audit found:
"The graph shows an increase of 58% in the number of traffic collisions from 2003 to 2004.... Contrary to long-term expectations, the chart shows an increase in claims at each level of damage with the largest percentage increase appearing at the highest dollar value."

A 2005 Virginia DOT study found:
"The cameras are correlated with an increase in total crashes of 8% to 17%."

In 2005, The Washington Post found:
"The analysis shows that the number of crashes at locations with cameras more than doubled, from 365 collisions in 1998 to 755 last year. Injury and fatal crashes climbed 81 percent, from 144 such wrecks to 262. Broadside crashes, also known as right-angle or T-bone collisions, rose 30 percent, from 81 to 106 during that time frame."

A 2004 North Carolina A&T University study found:
"Our findings are more pessimistic, finding no change in angle accidents and large increases in rear-end crashes and many other types of crashes relative to other intersections."

A 2003 Ontario Ministry of Transportation study found:
"Compared to the average number of reported collisions occurring in the before period, the average yearly number of reported collisions increased 15.1 per cent in the after period."

A 1995 Australian Road Research Board study found:
"The results of this study suggest that the installation of the RLC at these sites did not provide any reduction in accidents, rather there has been increases in rear end and adjacent approaches accidents on a before and after basis and also by comparison with the changes in accidents at intersection signals."


A 1995 Monash University (Australia) study found:
"a simple correlation analysis was undertaken for red light running data in the current study and revealed no significant relationship between the frequency of crashes at RLC and non-RLC sites and differences in red light running behaviour."

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/04/430.asp

[gatorback]

any more recent data?

[jbm32206]

Isn't this pretty much a done deal? That the city's going to install them? As long as you're not one of those people who skate through the red lights, then there's nothing to worry about.

Personally, if it helps stop some of these jerks that run the lights, then it's worth having them.

I know they've installed them in Philly and it has helped at many of the bad intersections where there were always cars blowing the lights and had deadly wrecks...so, IMO, they're a good additive.

[Pavers]

Folks, this is a revenue grab pure and simple.  In Chicago, they are adding cameras like wild-fire, as it's a politically pain-free way of garnering extra revenue.  I am not a big fan of these sneaky ways of getting extra revenue.  Again, Chicago is the master - lots of teeny tiny indirect taxes that add up to a big bite.  If we need the officers, add to the ad valorem tax base.  And if we want traffic safety, add the cameras and take any "excess" revenues and credit it back to taypayers via lower ad valorem or fees.

When you have to depend on law enforcement as a revenue source, that's a slippery slope.  "Hey you, Mr. Jaywalker, come grab your ticket for $250..."

[02roadking]

So what will the cost be to install and maintain this system?

[jbm32206]

The vote to place 10 cameras on top of stop lights at some of Jacksonville’s busiest intersection passed through the city council unanimously Tuesday night. (12/11) The cameras are not scheduled to be installed until June or July of 2008.

City leaders tell us the cameras will not cost the city of Jacksonville anything. They say the camera’s manufacturer will install and maintain the cameras for free, as long as the city gives them a percentage of the red light citations.

Beach at Atlantic
Beach at San Pablo
Beach at Kernan
Beach at Southside
Beach at University
Beach at Saint Johns Bluff
Butler Blvd. at 9-A
Southside at Baymeadows
Blanding at Youngerman Circle
Atlantic at Kernan

http://www.cbs47.com/content/topstor...3-dde610d76666

[Charles Hunter]

Interesting list, two of these are currently under construction:
Butler at 9A, and
Beach at Kernan

and, in a few more months, Atlantic/Kernan will be under construction (according to the JTA)

within a few months (OK a year) there won't be any traffic signals at Butler/9A

If it were my list, I'd scratch those three, and find others.  I'm sure there's a lot of candidates out there.


And, yes I go thru 'reds' sometimes, but then I look in my rearview and see one ... two ... three or more cars behind me coming thru, too.  What would happen if I stopped like I should have?

[Charleston native]

Common sense and logic rears its gorgeous head once again with this insane fury by governments to capture more revenue while claiming it is for the good the people. Lunican, thanks for posting those studies and quotes.

What I find amazing is the apparent lack of ingenuity with technology for cities in their neverending quest to obtain more power and money. Why hasn't anybody suggested to create a red-light-ticket delay activation time to prevent these accidents? Basically, when the light turns red, the opposing intersection green light is delayed by 2-3 seconds in order to prevent accidents from motorists clearly running the light. The same delay could be added to the camera/ticket technology. The result: only motorists that clearly violate the intersection after the red light is on would be ticketed. Motorists that cross the intersection when the light is "orange" would not be ticketed.

That said, I actually oppose these cameras. If any bureaucracy wants to take my money for violating the law, I want a uniformed law enforcement officer to do it. Work for it, dude!  Seriously though, stuff like this could open the door for government agencies requesting GPS speed chips in all cars to ticket motorists anytime their speed went above the limit, i.e., more nanny government in your lives.

[Little John]

I have almost been hit several times by oversized pickup trucks running the red lights at Southside and Baymeadows.  They think it is a raceway.  I look forward to the installation of the Photo System and the issuance of hundreds of tickets.  Maybe then caution will be observed.

[Driven1]

The vote to place 10 cameras on top of stop lights at some of Jacksonville’s busiest intersection passed through the city council unanimously Tuesday night. (12/11) The cameras are not scheduled to be installed until June or July of 2008.

City leaders tell us the cameras will not cost the city of Jacksonville anything. They say the camera’s manufacturer will install and maintain the cameras for free, as long as the city gives them a percentage of the red light citations.

Beach at Atlantic
Beach at San Pablo
Beach at Kernan
Beach at Southside
Beach at University
Beach at Saint Johns Bluff
Butler Blvd. at 9-A
Southside at Baymeadows
Blanding at Youngerman Circle
Atlantic at Kernan

http://www.cbs47.com/content/topstor...3-dde610d76666

I looked at City Council briefs/agendas from Tuesday night and found no such legislation.  Additonally, the CBS47 link listed is not a live link. 

[jbm32206]

http://www.cbs47.com/content/topstories/story.aspx?content_id=238f9f9f-2f75-4473-b1e9-10bb450bbb7b
Here's a good link....

Local drivers who speed through intersections and run red lights could be putting on the breaks very soon.

The Jacksonville City Council reportedly passed a plan Tuesday night to put cameras at ten of Jacksonville’s most dangerous intersections to catch speeders and red light runners.

Now, if you’re caught by one of these cameras running a red light, or traveling in excess of 15 miles per hour over the speed limit, you’ll receive a ticket in the mail ranging from $125 to $300. However, you won’t receive any points on your driver’s license.

City Councilman Stephen Joost proposed the idea after seeing how successful it was in other cities. The proposed legislation will be officially named after Feliscia Robbins, an 18-year-old that was killed when the driver of the car she was in ran a red light and crashed.

The ten intersections expected to receive cameras are:

Beach at Atlantic
Beach at San Pablo
Beach at Kernan
Beach at Southside
Beach at University
Beach at Saint Johns Bluff
Butler Blvd. at 9-A
Southside at Baymeadows
Blanding at Youngerman Circle
Atlantic at Kernan

Reported by: Denise Douglas
Email: denisedouglas@clearchannel.com
Contributor: Brandon Westerman
Last Update: 12/12/2007 10:01 am