Hemming Plaza Needs Us to Pack the House!

[fsujax]

One idea I have had is bringing students from Lavilla School of the Arts and Douglas Anderson there to perform during lunch time. How hard would that be? Those schools are basically downtown and it would be great for them to be able to show off their talents!

[Jax_Spartan]

I agree with everyone it makes the park much less valuable. My point is the park has already reached the point where "visitors are deterred" and "is less inviting to ALL PEOPLE," at least during the day. I would never even think to journey near that park during the day because there is just a mob of 30 homeless people. If there was only one or two that would be one thing, but typically almost every bench or seat is already filled with a homeless person and it is not comfortable for the average visitor. I would be willing to gander if you traveled to Hemming plaza at noon every week day next week, you would be asked for money a majority of your visits and feel very uncomfortable.

If the city can come up with a strategy to open a center or at least relocate the homeless people, then I would say leave the benches and allow gaming. If nothing ever takes place, in my opinion the park is already lost for the most part.

(Now during Art Walk or planned events on the weekend, its another story and I enjoy visiting the plaza.)

[ronchamblin]

Makes sense Jax¬_S.  The current occupiers, by their overwhelming or commandeering presence, prevent its use by the casual city core visitor, and by the nearby workers and residents.  The park is already destroyed, at least for the majority of the population who might wish to use it, which is unfair to them, and favors completely the “occupiers”.

Obviously something must be done.  I’m encouraged that we are engaging the proposed idea of building a day center for these people, as pushed by mayor Brown and promoted by others over the years, so that they can have an alternative place to go.  I expect that any new day facility will not remove “all” the current occupying group from the park because some might prefer the natural feel of Hemming Park as compared to the artificiality of a day facility. 

But this partial success would be quite acceptable, as it would finally allow the local visitors and workers to begin to use the park, thereby establishing a momentum which would convey to the former occupiers that the park can no longer be thought of as their daytime camp.

The very fact of there being a day center will offer a legitimate mechanism of pressuring the former occupiers to exit the park, and will give less validity to any legal action by rights activists against efforts to remove the “campers”.

But.... yes.  I prefer to keep the tables, chairs, and benches, and to allow the gaming to continue, as these things provide the essence of a park.  They should also allow gaming at any new day center.

At this point, the new day center is the key to a resolution of the park problem.   




 

[thelakelander]

I agree with everyone it makes the park much less valuable. My point is the park has already reached the point where "visitors are deterred" and "is less inviting to ALL PEOPLE," at least during the day.

It hasn't reached that point yet.  However, making it less inviting to all people will push it that way.

I would never even think to journey near that park during the day because there is just a mob of 30 homeless people. If there was only one or two that would be one thing, but typically almost every bench or seat is already filled with a homeless person and it is not comfortable for the average visitor. I would be willing to gander if you traveled to Hemming plaza at noon every week day next week, you would be asked for money a majority of your visits and feel very uncomfortable.

I cut through the park routinely and have never been asked for change in it.  From my experience, you're more likely to get hit up for change in isolated situations on the surrounding streets.

If the city can come up with a strategy to open a center or at least relocate the homeless people, then I would say leave the benches and allow gaming. If nothing ever takes place, in my opinion the park is already lost for the most part.

The city is coming up with a strategy.  There's an 11 or 13 page thread on this forum discussing day center locations that the Mayor's Office is currently considering.

(Now during Art Walk or planned events on the weekend, its another story and I enjoy visiting the plaza.)

This is the problem and the area of a solution.  In reality, there is really no reason for most to visit this space.  Most of the retail has been converted into office space that doesn't integrate well with the park, creating significant areas of dead space with limited foot traffic.  There's also limited programming.  The solution isn't to remove amenities (btw, what happened to all of the benches in the area?  I had to wait for someone at Laura & Adams one day and noticed you can't even sit down). 

The solution is to flood the space with a mix of activities that draws a mix of people and demographics on a regular basis.  Do that, and the seats and shade become larger amenities than they are today.  Long term, it should be to repurpose many of the adjacent city owned buildings to include ground level uses that open up and integrate with the space on all frontages.

[thelakelander]

Makes sense Jax¬_S.  The current occupiers, by their overwhelming or commandeering presence, prevent its use by the casual city core visitor, and by the nearby workers and residents.  The park is already destroyed, at least for the majority of the population who might wish to use it, which is unfair to them, and favors completely the “occupiers”.

I'd argue that they don't.  The reason it isn't used by casual city core visitors is because there's no reason for them to be there for an extended period of time.  With your meter ticking, you're definitely not going there to hang out for the sake of sitting under a tree.  Need proof, just visit the public plaza literally across the street, in front of the federal courthouse.  It's pristine and empty of homeless, the casual visitor, and everyone else.  This tends to point to an area that isn't designed well at the pedestrian scale level and one that is ripe with uses that don't feed people into or interact well with the space.

Obviously something must be done.  I’m encouraged that we are engaging the proposed idea of building a day center for these people, as pushed by mayor Brown and promoted by others over the years, so that they can have an alternative place to go.  I expect that any new day facility will not remove “all” the current occupying group from the park because some might prefer the natural feel of Hemming Park as compared to the artificiality of a day facility.

Programming and logical integration with surrounding spaces at the pedestrian scale level is the answer.  It really works.  On the other hand, it's been proven that making the area more hostile to the average resident and visitor won't.

But this partial success would be quite acceptable, as it would finally allow the local visitors and workers to begin to use the park, thereby establishing a momentum which would convey to the former occupiers that the park can no longer be thought of as their daytime camp.

The very fact of there being a day center will offer a legitimate mechanism of pressuring the former occupiers to exit the park, and will give less validity to any legal action by rights activists against efforts to remove the “campers”.

The day center will help but people aren't really going to use that space into its worth visiting.  We should take a book from the page of cities across the country and flood it with activity and self generating uses.

But.... yes.  I prefer to keep the tables, chairs, and benches, and to allow the gaming to continue, as these things provide the essence of a park.  They should also allow gaming at any new day center.

At this point, the new day center is the key to a resolution of the park problem.

Speaking of the gaming, the gaming discussion bothers me racially.  For some reason, I feel if it were any other race with old guys out there playing chess or whatever, it would be encouraged and promoted, like they do in other communities.

Things to do in Miami: Little Havana



Visitors should also check out Maximo Gomez Park, nicknamed Domino Park for the favorite pastime of the Cuban retirees that congregate here during the day. Games are strictly for members only, but this is a great place to sit and observe some heated domino matches. After this brief tour of the barrio, it’s time to get down to business? Here’s a list of things every visitor should do in Little Havana:

http://www.graylinemiami.com/blog/index.php/things-to-do-in-miami-little-havana/




 

[thelakelander]

Can anyone explain why this space doesn't fill up with people? 





It is across the street from Hemming Plaza.  It has benches, shade trees, planters, and it is well maintained.  There are no homeless, vagrants, occupiers, and black guys playing chess.  Nevertheless, people still don't hang out here?  Does anyone think it could have a similar problem impacting it that Hemming Plaza has as well?  To see, understand, and address the much larger problem, we have to get passed the focusing on the current users of the spaces.

[Coolyfett]

Can anyone explain why this space doesn't fill up with people? 





It is across the street from Hemming Plaza.  It has benches, shade trees, planters, and it is well maintained.  There are no homeless, vagrants, occupiers, and black guys playing chess.  Nevertheless, people still don't hang out here?  Does anyone think it could have a similar problem impacting it that Hemming Plaza has as well?  To see, understand, and address the much larger problem, we have to get passed the focusing on the current users of the spaces.

lol @ black guys playing chess!

[strider]

Quote from: ronchamblin on Today at 03:04:04 AM
Makes sense Jax¬_S.  The current occupiers, by their overwhelming or commandeering presence, prevent its use by the casual city core visitor, and by the nearby workers and residents.  The park is already destroyed, at least for the majority of the population who might wish to use it, which is unfair to them, and favors completely the “occupiers”.

Quote from: Jax_Spartan on Yesterday at 11:26:12 PM
I agree with everyone it makes the park much less valuable. My point is the park has already reached the point where "visitors are deterred" and "is less inviting to ALL PEOPLE," at least during the day.

How soon some things are forgotten.  It is often way to easy to remember the issues you choose to focus on and forget the reality of things.  Here's is your reminder:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,14765.0.html

Watch the video.  I do not see armed homeless guards stopping anyone from using the park.  I see lots of people, yes just people, of all races and economic backgrounds, using their park.

A few have an issue with the homeless no matter where they are.  The recent issue with the Armory shows this very well.  When you really read what was being said, it wasn't just the location, it was that anything was being done at all even close to "their" community.  Thankfully, not all feel that way, but sometimes it unfortunately seems like the majority.  While the Armory idea was handled badly, the basic idea is sound and what is needed Downtown.  A pilot program set up in a usable building, to keep the costs in line, to prove the idea works and that everyone of us benefits.

If our leaders really have their minds set on believing that removing benches and the like will fix the homeless problem, perhaps we should let them try.  What they will end up with is what many mistakenly claim we have already, a park and downtown filled with no one but the homeless.  Maybe then they will listen to reason.  Or at least the public will and a new set of councilmen will get elected.

(If someone who can wants to put the actual video up here, it would be great, I'm too tech dumb to do it, so this link is the best I can do. )

[sheclown]

I ain't scared.

[Bridges]

Speaking of the gaming, the gaming discussion bothers me racially.  For some reason, I feel if it were any other race with old guys out there playing chess or whatever, it would be encouraged and promoted, like they do in other communities.

I thought the same thing.  It would be really interesting to do an experiment after this passes.  Every day some white guys in suit who work around there should go eat in the park and play a quick game of chess or dominoes. See how many times they're asked to stop.


When you start to think about things like that, you realize that you're taking away the activities, and not the people. 

[ronchamblin]

Don't forget persons ..... this Tuesday..... to offer your persuasion on the issue:

Notice is hereby given that the Council Member E. Denise Lee, Council Member Bill Gulliford and Council Member Don Redman are calling at meeting on Tuesday October 23 at 3:30 p.m. in City Council Conference Room B on the 4th floor, Suite 425 of City Hall at 117 West Duval Street. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the proposed Hemming Plaza ordinance that would restrict card games in the park as well as authorize the removal of benches, tables and chairs, diseased trees and spending CIP dollars to repair planters and flower beds. All interested parties are welcome to attend.

[Ocklawaha]

Speaking of the gaming, the gaming discussion bothers me racially.  For some reason, I feel if it were any other race with old guys out there playing chess or whatever, it would be encouraged and promoted, like they do in other communities.

Things to do in Miami: Little Havana



Visitors should also check out Maximo Gomez Park, nicknamed Domino Park for the favorite pastime of the Cuban retirees that congregate here during the day. Games are strictly for members only, but this is a great place to sit and observe some heated domino matches. After this brief tour of the barrio, it’s time to get down to business? Here’s a list of things every visitor should do in Little Havana:

http://www.graylinemiami.com/blog/index.php/things-to-do-in-miami-little-havana/

I agree 100% Lake, in fact if we identified an area of town where large numbers of unemployed Black citizens congregated along sidewalks and storefronts I bet some of these same committee members would be suggesting a 'park' where everyone could go... This whole thing stinks to high heaven and I hope a swift accounting is made of the misguided leadership at the top.

[Ocklawaha]

I ain't scared.

I ain't either Sheclown, I'm mortified! Hopefully the public will see and understand that the bums are INSIDE the St. James Building, not across the street from it.

[sheclown]

I ain't scared.

I ain't either Sheclown, I'm mortified! Hopefully the public will see and understand that the bums are INSIDE the St. James Building, not across the street from it.

nice.

[Timkin]

It is very disheartening to see members of Council proposing to spend taxpayer dollars to destroy this space.

Honestly, It is too bad these individuals cannot be immediately terminated.