Mayor Brown not a fan of SOE's downtown proposal

[simms3]

Very quick surface research leads me to find that the office component and warehouse component are almost always separated in other cities.  The office component is usually in an office building or a municipal building/government center of some sort and the warehouse locations if even needed are somewhere offsite.

If Jacksonville must do things differently and consolidate the office and warehouse/training facility in one separate location, then can it at least do so to the benefit of the city itself?  There are so many unused buildings that are not contributing to the tax base that could be had for cheap with some nice cheap modifications to make for cool office and industrial space, and the restored buildings could incentivize private development, potentially adding to tax base...

[thelakelander]

Under no circumstances should something like the following images be allowed in the Northbank, even if it does have an office component:







Unless Holland's design parameters change, a 65,000 warehouse box should be directed to an urban location on the peripheral of the Northbank like Myrtle Avenue or Talleyrand.  No matter how we dress the walls up, downtown doesn't need anymore large scale surface parking lots and big boxes that permanently convert several blocks into dead pedestrian scale spaces.

[carpnter]

The problem with locating it in Talleyrand or around Myrtle Ave. is access by those who utilize public transportation. 
Instead why not consider designs that look less like a warehouse and more like an office building. 

[mtraininjax]

I smell one of Brown's Public/Private partnerships here.....Talk to the HAND!

[thelakelander]

The problem with locating it in Talleyrand or around Myrtle Ave. is access by those who utilize public transportation.

Myrtle and Beaver do get public transit service.  That's one of the most transit dependent communities in town and JTA's maintenance yard is in the area as well.

Instead why not consider designs that look less like a warehouse and more like an office building.

Because urbanism and vibrancy is about interaction at the pedestrian scale, not making a building or landscape look pretty.    So as long as you have a box with no interaction with the sidewalks and land uses surrounding it, it doesn't matter if its all white or green with purple polka dots and face windows.  It's still a dead zone.

Perhaps its better to separate the warehouse and office operations?  The office uses could be downtown and the warehouse operations could be in one of the warehouse districts surrounding downtown.  That would allow you to take advantage of existing buildings for both uses, with both still in close proximity to one another.

[John P]

thelakelander.
do you not think that the proposed site is on the outskirts of downtown enough so that it will never be emphasis for urbanization in your lifetime? The core of downtown is the focus where it should be. That site have nothing walk able or urban about it. If you build street level reatil there it will be on an island. I bet most people would want an attractive well maintained building there than holding breathes for a vibrant urban setting in that location. What do you think?

[thelakelander]

I believe the proposed site is a gateway site that would have been developed years ago if that development team who proposed townhomes there would have been allowed to proceed.  This isn't about street level retail.  This is about placing uses at the pedestrian scale that generate activity and integrate with the landscape surrounding them.  In my opinion, every single project, no matter the use, should be designed for pedestrian scale interaction in the Northbank, if we really want to see it become a vibrant place long term.

[thelakelander]

I bet most people would want an attractive well maintained building there than holding breathes for a vibrant urban setting in that location. What do you think?

I believe you're right.  I also believe most people in Jacksonville have no earthly clue to how a vibrant city is designed and works, which is why after 60 years of redevelopment, all we have to show for our efforts is a burnt out core of a downtown with billions flushed down the toilet.

[simms3]

thelakelander.
do you not think that the proposed site is on the outskirts of downtown enough so that it will never be emphasis for urbanization in your lifetime? The core of downtown is the focus where it should be. That site have nothing walk able or urban about it. If you build street level reatil there it will be on an island. I bet most people would want an attractive well maintained building there than holding breathes for a vibrant urban setting in that location. What do you think?

That's an example of a lack of forward thinking.  You're right that right now the area is a dead zone with dirt lots, chain link fences, homeless, isolated suburban office buildings, LaVilla School, etc.  BUT this is exactly the kind of area that could literally explode with new development under the right conditions.  It and Brooklyn probably have by and far the most potential for infill in the city, and I have seen too many formerly similar areas in other cities become covered in mixed-use transit friendly density in a matter of a decade or less.  Putting another warehouse in the area will just further kill the potential and put Jacksonville behind AND limit future tax rolls significantly.

Holland is thinking appropriately about saving the taxpayer money, but unless he knows something we all don't, and that may be the case, it seems there are far better and more effective ways to save the taxpayer money here AND improve the city in some way.

Still waiting on just one ULI article that mentions Jacksonville in any way...even negative press would be better than no press that we get now and the former chairman of ULI over the past year LIVES in Jacksonville!  I have in my 3 years in the organization never seen the word Jacksonville mentioned in any of the bimonthly Urban Land magazines, but I can imagine that if the city takes the initiative with one of these warehouse districts and converts them into municipal use, leaving some for private sector use, then you could have a flashy article highlighting the city's creative ways to consolidate some agencies in space while bringing back to life a declined industrial area convenient to intown neighborhoods and commercial centers, all while being green and saving the taxpayer money of course and spurring private sector development in and around the same area.  Like that will ever happen, but one can dream.

[Ralph W]

There is a property that appears to be available downtown for the SOE office that might fit the requirements.

It's about 4 blocks east from the Rosa Parks station, has a bus route of you can't walk 4 blocks, has tons of dividable floor space, high ceilings with several roll up doors to accommodate shipping and receiving and has a huge wrap around parking lot.

Warren Motors, State Street.

[fsujax]

^^That is going to be demolished and become a McDonalds.