New JTA leader could mean new direction for authority

[thelakelander]

thelakelander, your are right. It is not practical for JTA to invest millions into one system with the intention of shuttering it once it can build something better. What you are forgetting is that government bureaucracy has a hard time looking at statics from a 3 dimensional perceptive. Take for instance the Miami Police Department. The department is running a surplus for the year, which should be a good thing. The problem is that if the department does not spend that money, when their budget is reassed for the following year it will lose out on further funding. It in the interest of the department to spend the rest of the money. In this case it bought two foreign luxury cars to partrol the highways. My point being, things don't always make sense in government spending.

I understand that scenario but I don't comprehend how it would result in a transit agency trying to grow into LRT by building a streetcar first.  Looking at it from a very very general perspective, they are virtually the same thing with some major operational differences.  So if you're going to invest in one, you might as well invest in the one you really want and one that fits your desired landscape.

With that said, I'm aware that the most recent Memphis streetcar corridor (Madison Avenue) is designed to LRT standards.  However, from my understanding (I'm sure Ock knows more about this than me) that's not a case of trying to grow into a system.  That's a case of already having a streetcar system with long term plans to add a LRT line between the airport and downtown.  Thus, whenever they get to the airport, that new Madison Avenue line will tie it in with downtown.  In the meantime, they're running their existing streetcars on it.

[Ocklawaha]

I think we get way too caught up in modern system titles and definitions. Streetcar, interurban and even conventional  railroads throughout history, frequently operated interchangeably on each others trackage.

There is really nothing 'under the hood' of a streetcar that differs significantly from light rail or even high speed electric rail such as the trains in France or Japan. In modern times, there is a weight and speed difference but again, that is more a result of design then it is need. streetcars are the lightest, interurban/light-rail is next, and diesel DMU or locomotive hauled trains are the heaviest.

Provided that the electric current was the same, it would be possible to operate a massive Jewett built wooden interurban, on the same track as a modern streetcar.

That being said, there are many museums that have constructed several miles of electric railroad that operate a host of different equipment types on the same track. Volunteer built track. There are also a few surviving interurban routes that roll out a variety of equipment. These operations usually are built with wooden 'relay' railroad ties, 80-110 pound rail and jointed track. Power is delivered via a simple trolley wire, suspended from recycled telephone poles and several have been in operation since the end of the classic era of electric railroads.

My question is; 'WHY NOT?' Why not take a look at what works and what doesn't and see if we could rip a page from the historical railroad museum play book? As the project developed, and with mobility funds, it would give us the liberty to decide if each component could be upgraded starting with a bare, museum like, basic design. My guess is we could shatter some sort of records for bringing in the whole project for WAY less then other cities have. As Lake has pointed out, it's not even that rail or even BRT is all that expensive, it's the junk streetscapes and furnishings that gets rolled into the projects that run them right off a cliff. When JTA tried to sell the city on their wild BRT designs, they compared it to light-rail... IN SUBWAYS!  Like really? A subway in Jacksonville? Yet the mainstream local media didn't have a clue and parroted the claim that 'BRT is far cheaper then rail...'

Memphis, Fort Collins, Fort Smith, and Kenosha have all gotten close to these concepts, perhaps it's up to us to make them fly.

NOTE THE VIDEO BELOW, INTERURBAN-STREETCAR ON THE SAME RAILWAY.

http://www.youtube.com/v/hPhSaSInUPM?version=3&hl=en_US

[thelakelander]

Here is a video of the system in San Diego.  They run both LRT and currently Streetcar on the same track.  You'll see them passing each other around the 1:00 minute mark on the video.  My point in showing this is to illustrate you don't "grow yourself" into LRT by building streetcar first.  They are pretty much the same type of technology.

http://www.youtube.com/v/BtjEO5q8vnE?version=3&hl=en_US

[thelakelander]

True,  but as roads and bridges are likely to be taken away it will leave JTA as a transit agency represented by the numbers I posted. Sad when one considers Orlando and St. Petersburg are bigger, and Gainesville carry's as many passengers even though we have two universities and several colleges along our own routes.

Gainesville and Tallahassee are not fair comparisons....50,000 students at UF and 43,000 at FSU compared with less than 25,000 combined at UNF and JU

Plus, both cities transit systems get millions from their universities each year in return for making the system "fare-free" for students and some staff...plus you have a captive market of students whose parking can be severly restricted.

Now UNF has started a transit service on campus...and with their new policy that all freshmen live on campus, parking can be minimized and transit ridership could go up....but of course it isn't operated by JTA so it doesn't count in their figures.

Polk State College and Southeastern University have both entered agreements with their local transit agency in Lakeland to allow their students free rides.

tudents, faculty and staff at the faith-based, private college will be able to catch the bus as well, and for free. Carroll said the arrangement will benefit the Citrus Connection bus service and the college.

Polk State College entered into a similar plan with the bus service in April, and that's been touted as a success. Polk State spokesman David Steele said in the first full month of the partnership in May, more than 3,600 people with Polk State IDs used public transportation. The expectation was for about 2,400.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20120821/NEWS/120829912&tc=ix

For what its worth, Southeastern also just announced plans to construct a stadium on their Lakeland campus and start their own NAIA Division I football team by 2014:





http://www.theledger.com/article/20120924/NEWS/120929623?p=all&tc=pgall

Southeastern is slightly smaller than JU.  Polk State College has around 10,000 undergraduates.

[thelakelander]

Steve Bland, a finalist for both the JTA and MARTA jobs, did not win the MARTA position.  Instead, they selected San Antonio's Keith Parker, who was over transit agencies in Charlotte and Vancouver, before heading to San Antonio. 

The next CEO of MARTA will be a seasoned public administrator who now serves as chief of San Antonio’s transit system.

Keith Parker comes with high praise from members of the board that oversees the Texas system named Via Metropolitan Transit. Parker was chosen by a unanimous vote over Stephen Bland, who leads the transit system in Pittsburgh.

http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/10/martas-next-ceo-now-heads-san-antonios-transit-system-earned-high-praise-there/