AT&T looking for office space, could leave Downtown Jacksonville

[thelakelander]

^There's FSCJ and Edward Waters is only a mile away.  They may not be University of Florida but they're better than nothing.  Florida Southern College in Lakeland only has 2,500 students and SCAD isn't that large either.  However, both have had a significant impact on the urban neighborhoods surrounding them.  Perhaps an effort should be made to help integrate them better with downtown instead of waiting on a major institution for come up with hundreds of millions for an urban branch campus they might not need.

[ben says]

^There's FSCJ and Edward Waters is only a mile away.  They may not be University of Florida but they're better than nothing.  Florida Southern College in Lakeland only has 2,500 students and SCAD isn't that large either.  However, both have had a significant impact on the urban neighborhoods surrounding them.  Perhaps an effort should be made to help integrate them better with downtown instead of waiting on a major institution for come up with hundreds of millions for an urban branch campus they might not need.

Since you mentioned SCAD...

I LOVED what they did to downtown Savannah. What are the chances this town could ever get off it's ass and attract something along those lines?

[dougskiles]

^There's FSCJ and Edward Waters is only a mile away.  They may not be University of Florida but they're better than nothing.  Florida Southern College in Lakeland only has 2,500 students and SCAD isn't that large either.  However, both have had a significant impact on the urban neighborhoods surrounding them.  Perhaps an effort should be made to help integrate them better with downtown instead of waiting on a major institution for come up with hundreds of millions for an urban branch campus they might not need.

Since you mentioned SCAD...

I LOVED what they did to downtown Savannah. What are the chances this town could ever get off it's ass and attract something along those lines?

Any reason that UNF couldn't bring fine arts classes/studios/programs to Downtown?  They are already doing great things at MOCA.

[thelakelander]

They would have to want too. That would be the biggest obstacle. Assuming they wanted too, COJ would be the next obstacle. When Florida Coastal wanted to move downtown a couple of years ago, COJ couldn't close the deal. The same thing is taking place with Ben's brewery now.

[mtraininjax]

The same thing is taking place with Ben's brewery now.

From some of the city planners I spoke to at the Jags game, the issue the City has now with Ben's plans are that they want someone who has a great big enormous plan for the green space downtown, not just one piece. I have not asked Ben if he wants to become a real estate developer, but it seems the City is just doing what its always done and seems to be getting the results its always got.

[ben says]

They would have to want too. That would be the biggest obstacle. Assuming they wanted too, COJ would be the next obstacle. When Florida Coastal wanted to move downtown a couple of years ago, COJ couldn't close the deal. The same thing is taking place with Ben's brewery now.

A lot of people still think that FCSL only gave lip service to the idea of moving downtown. Not many realize that they actually tried to do so.

I know they are now, again, attempting to resurrect the idea of moving SOME, not all, of the operations downtown. Either student housing or a satellite campus.

[jcjohnpaint]

We cannot have classes at MOCA if students don't enroll.  Our students (generally) do not want to go downtown for class, especially when they have to pay for parking.

[Tacachale]

^There's FSCJ and Edward Waters is only a mile away.  They may not be University of Florida but they're better than nothing.  Florida Southern College in Lakeland only has 2,500 students and SCAD isn't that large either.  However, both have had a significant impact on the urban neighborhoods surrounding them.  Perhaps an effort should be made to help integrate them better with downtown instead of waiting on a major institution for come up with hundreds of millions for an urban branch campus they might not need.

Since you mentioned SCAD...

I LOVED what they did to downtown Savannah. What are the chances this town could ever get off it's ass and attract something along those lines?

I'd say very unlikely, and that's not at all unique to Jacksonville. These days it's very difficult to start viable new non-profit colleges. The best bet is to build up what we have, and to be on the ball when the very rare opportunities arise, as Charlotte did with Johnson & Wales. Not that that's comparable to SCAD, but it was a great addition to the city. In contrast, as you say, Jacksonville didn't have it together enough to get the law school to go where all the law stuff is at.

We cannot have classes at MOCA if students don't enroll.  Our students (generally) do not want to go downtown for class, especially when they have to pay for parking.

We do offer classes in museum studies at MOCA, as well as internships. Jcjohn, that's my understanding too (and you'd know better than me) that there hasn't been much student interest in taking classes at MOCA (so far). Parking is clearly a factor there, and it's as much on us than it is on the city. We already charge students to park at UNF, and if they have classes downtown they have to pay even more. We need to find a way to cover or mitigate that for them.

[jcjohnpaint]

We do have one life drawing class down there taught by Jim Draper.  Our photo dept has some space in the basement for advanced students.  I don't want to speak for all students, but the double charge on the parking is their biggest gripe.  I think another issue is getting there between classes.  I don't know I think it can be done though, at least if parking was not an issue. 

[thelakelander]

The same thing is taking place with Ben's brewery now.

From some of the city planners I spoke to at the Jags game, the issue the City has now with Ben's plans are that they want someone who has a great big enormous plan for the green space downtown, not just one piece. I have not asked Ben if he wants to become a real estate developer, but it seems the City is just doing what its always done and seems to be getting the results its always got.

Downtown is nothing but parking lots. The planner in me sees several other city owned parcels that may be suitable alternatives. I would think that the correct move would be to take advantage of the opportunity by suggesting an alternative site that may still meet the brewery's site selection criteria.  That's a better alternative than letting this opportunity die with a new brewery being constructed in some random suburban industrial park.

[downtownjag]

I love how people say no one is going vertical downtown anytime soon; that's not really the case.  While it does have to make financial sense; civic pride is a factor & there are projects on the table.

On a side note; the SE Everbank sign is up & lit tonight; it looks great!  Go Jacksonville!

[simms3]

^^^But you fail to realize that a developer is often but one TINY part of financial interest in a new project.  You have debt and you have investors, both now more proactively underwriting projects they are interested in on their own ends.  Before if you had any experience, relationships, reputation etc you could do whatever you wanted and the money would flow your way.  Now unless you're a 100 year old fund syndicator with $25B of assets under management like a Blackstone fund etc you're going to have to work your freaking ass off for money, both debt and equity.  Proving to either side of the financial pyramid that Jacksonville is a place to invest in is almost more of a challenge than building the pyramids at Giza.

And then on top of it, Jacksonville doesn't have any home town hero developers - aside from very small time limited experience groups like Black Sheep Restaurant Group which enlist outside help.  This is evident in the fact that a "developer" in Jacksonville is merely someone who either develops lots for homebuilders in master-planned suburban developments of regional impact or strip mall kings like Tony Sleiman.  In many if not most other cities 1 million people and larger developer has come to mean something entirely different over the past decade.  Developers have become local heros and celebrities in other cities for their ingenious infill developments or their ability to build up CBDs and make downtowns a nice place once again.  They are the see and be seen people that everyone talks about or knows of.  I guarantee you that nobody in Jax even knows the names of who is behind SJTC, but Frank Carter/Ben Carter are two well known developers in Atlanta.  Everyone knows that Ben Carter put a good effort into Streets of Buckhead.  Tomorrow night I'll be at a party with all the biggest names in town.  Names that people know even outside of Atlanta.  None are known for developing tract housing lots, but rather known for defining whole sections of town be it Midtown mixed-use, Buckhead towers, Vinings, Perimeter, the Westside, Lucky Marietta District in downtown, Fulton Industrial park (more industrial SF than almost all of NE FL in one park), etc etc.

So going vertical in Jax is going to take someone with ambition and leadership and some know how to raise money.  Outsiders are putting up generic apartment communities near SJTC and a group is developing SJTC, which is replicated in every city multiple times over now.  It's going to take a local to really do something downtown/intown, but we don't have anyone yet, nor the city leadership to provide the right environment.