Retail-less Parador Parking Garage Up For DDRB Appoval

[thelakelander]

Looks like the King Street garage with facade changes.  Costs have lowered due to the economy but given the "glue and glitter" it looks like $6 to $9 million to me.

Lol, you're right.  I was thinking it looked like the Fidelity garage.

[mbwright]

Another mess.  Better of building nothing, than garbage.  This plan should be rejected.  Retail must be added, with possible flexibility to add more later (as part of design).  Since this does not address the Landing parking, this is a huge waste of money.  Is there another 3.5M elsewhere that would take care of the Landing parking? 

[thelakelander]

I just can't believe we're having to fight the construction of a flipping parking garage on one of this city's prime downtown properties!!  There HAS to be something/somewhere better.  There HAS to be another way.  That property can single handedly make or break the CBD's street level vibrancy and the beauty of our skyline and they're wanting to cover it up with a friggin PARKING GARAGE!?!?!?!?.

I get asked all the time why has it taken so long to pump energy and life into downtown.  This situation is a prime example of why.  Revitalization isn't about spending money and putting up stuff just to say you accomplished something.  It's really about clustering complementing uses within a compact pedestrian scale setting.  No matter what you insert into a space, it still needs to find a way to integrate and activate the sidewalk and street adjacent to it.  We've failed and continue to fail at realizing and enforcing this simple strategy.  I don't think the DDRB has any control over if a garage goes on this site or not but they can make the developer comply with the minimum design standards.

[PeeJayEss]

The "window box" treatment doesn't look any different than a garage. The 5/3 garage does a good job of hiding the fact thats its a parking garage (not that I think its pretty).

This re-design is a minor improvement, but its still not good enough. What recourse does the city have if Suntrust hits 65% occupancy and Parador doesn't build the building? If we're giving them money 1) some of it should be held back until retail is constructed or 2) failure to construct retail within ~5 years of reaching %65 should result in the money being owed back to the city.

Why don't we just pass on the $3.5 million to the Landing and say that satisfies our parking obligation (also, you can't use that money anywhere but the Landing/downtown)?

I say reject, or at least don't give any city money to this piece.

[simms3]

It looks great, alot better than the original IMO. It has a nice lil' funky urban flair to it, with some retail added. It definitely doesn't look like the typical downtown Jacksonville parking garage. Looks like a best case scenario to me.

OMG.  Get out much?

As Lake said, this still does not even meet minimum design standards as provided by code.  Also, this is what progressive sunbelt cities are reluctantly allowing to be built blocks off the main path.  Is that what you want in skyline shots of Jacksonville?  It is hardly impressive for a garage - I've seen better in suburbs.  When are companies in Jacksonville going to have a little bit of pride - Haskell's name is all over this as are the partners as are the architects.  What a shame.

Need I state the obvious that this is probably one of the top 3 prime development sites in the city, if not the absolute most prime piece of land, and THIS is what's going to occupy it?  Also, does anyone truly believe we need another garage, let alone one with this many spaces?  Fill the buildings first and work on integrating alternative routes/methods to get to work!  The masses in other cities would be out protesting this thing if it were approved for such a prime piece of land; I have personally witnessed small protests of even better garages in utter urban wastelands because people have become so anti-garage/anti-car and are longing for better.

Ok rant over.

[fsquid]

It looks great, alot better than the original IMO. It has a nice lil' funky urban flair to it, with some retail added. It definitely doesn't look like the typical downtown Jacksonville parking garage. Looks like a best case scenario to me.

what?

[jcjohnpaint]

Is the garage able to take a tower on top? 
-The design looks even worse
-The retail space will not handle anything of significance
-The Landing deal isn't cured- and isn't this one of the main reason to build the garage?
-Tax Payers money- where is the Tea Party on this one? 
-The developers should not have the upper hand when so much tax money is being used on this-  Them telling us what the terms are. 

[Ocklawaha]

Roads do NOT move people, they move cars. Likewise a sold block of parking garage doesn't entertain people, it entertains cars. If these trends continue in Jacksonville there could be a day when we all just stay home and send our cars into the city to work. As we write, Mickey-D's is trying to find a way into your glovebox. Continue this madness and all we'll have is a sea of cars... prettiest sight this side of I-4.

WE NEED RETAIL

WE NEED SERVICES

WE NEED FIXED MASS TRANSIT

[jcjohnpaint]

Maybe we need an analogy that Jax would understand: 
Would you have a big people less, store less section in a shopping mall?

[duvaldude08]

Its looks better than the original design, HOWEVER this is still not what we are looking for at all. To me, it seems they spruced up the physical aspect of it and left everything else almost viturally the same.

[tufsu1]

Roads do NOT move people, they move cars.

maybe so...but it shouldn't, and doesn't have to, be that way

[Jason]

I just can't believe we're having to fight the construction of a flipping parking garage on one of this city's prime downtown properties!!  There HAS to be something/somewhere better.  There HAS to be another way.  That property can single handedly make or break the CBD's street level vibrancy and the beauty of our skyline and they're wanting to cover it up with a friggin PARKING GARAGE!?!?!?!?.

I get asked all the time why has it taken so long to pump energy and life into downtown.  This situation is a prime example of why.  Revitalization isn't about spending money and putting up stuff just to say you accomplished something.  It's really about clustering complementing uses within a compact pedestrian scale setting.  No matter what you insert into a space, it still needs to find a way to integrate and activate the sidewalk and street adjacent to it.  We've failed and continue to fail at realizing and enforcing this simple strategy.  I don't think the DDRB has any control over if a garage goes on this site or not but they can make the developer comply with the minimum design standards.

I'm with you.  Still, even with the built-in retail etc. it would be a travesty to have the largest hole in our skyline plugged with a....  jeeze   




Just look at the skyline and tell me why anyone would think about building a damn parking garage in that location....



Why not revisit the Sleiman proposal?  Why not build a garage with first level retail at the old Andrew Jackson site on the southeast corner of Hogan and Independent?  Why note slide in some free angled parking on the Hogan Street cul-de-sac?  Why not make the existing parking lot free?  Why not work a deal with the Modis Building to allow after hours parking in their garage?

There are too many options that need to be exhausted before we kill the potential of a skyline and vibrancy enhancing tower by consuming the property with another parking garage (especially one that doesn't even meet the minimum standards set by the city).




..... Lake, my rant was in no way directed at you. 

[JeffreyS]

This is awful. I made the first meeting when they put this off. I doubt I will make it today but we could sure use a crowd to go raise a fuss. Go if you can.  They are not living up to the minimums and we are paying them 3.5 mil.

The bad part is the city has all the leverage here we can literally dictate terms. I used to think we needed urban planners to run the city but what we need are people who have been in sales and can see that plainly the applicant is going to do this deal no concessions needed.

[dougskiles]

Glad to see so many people fired up about it.

The meeting is at 2 pm in the Lynwood Roberts room at City Hall.

I hope to see all of you there.

[fsujax]

This is a disaster and I hope people can show up at City Hall to speak in opposition to this.