Downtown's Latest Park an Afterthought?

[vicupstate]

How to make more streets and make them more efficient for cars should be at the bottom of the list of priorities for this city.  How to make downtown more visually attractive to visitors, employees, residents and suburbanites and how to make anyone's visit to downtown, including multi-block walks easier and more pleasant should be the top priority.

+1,000

Downtown also has some of the widest one-way streets I have seen outside of NYC.  Most cities' downtowns have very cramped streets, much more traffic, tons of pedestrians to deal with and it becomes a much more hectic issue. 

It is very obvious that everything about DT is geared toward enabling all auto traffic to exit/drive-thru as quickly as possible.  Wide one-way streets, lights synchronized to move traffic at top speed through DT, no pedestrian accomodations to speak of, all combine to provide visual clues that there is no particular reason to do anything other than pass thru via auto as quickly as possible. 

[simms3]

^^^Feel blessed to have synchronized lights that move traffic at a light 35 mph.  I think Jacksonville has engineered its lights so well, and that should actually make pedestrian crossings easier with such an organized automobile system.  It should be easy to now tie ped crossings into the system and add bike lanes.  I live in a city with no grid, no timed lights, no synchronized lights, no organization for anybody, including the hundreds of thousands of cars that pack into a few square miles each day and a growing pedestrian environment, and it's pretty much a mess.  It's so bad that ped crossing signals don't even say walk or countdown on one-way streets that are stopped.  You, as a ped, have to press the button to get that signal.  And amazingly one of the world's top civil engineering programs is in the backyard (I don't think any grads are employed by the city).

Jacksonville has such an easy setup, it's one of the best I have ever seen.  Beyond the streets, the built environment or lack thereof depending is where the challenge is.

[avonjax]

If the past is true, you are looking at the final product. Another wasted opportunity. "The Jacksonville Way." Sad!

[sandyshoes]

(Side note:  Worman's Deli, come back!!!  Look at all the potential customers and foot traffic!!) 

[copperfiend]

If the past is true, you are looking at the final product. Another wasted opportunity. "The Jacksonville Way." Sad!

It gets old, doesn't it?

[avonjax]

I've had to witness this for over 30 years. Instead of doing something special with this opportunity, attention will now be turned to destroying Hemming Plaza. There is one simple problem to fixing downtown. GET PEOPLE, IN NUMBERS, TO GO THERE. EAT THERE. HANG OUT THERE. AND HOPEFULLY IN TIME SHOP THERE OR GO TO A MOVIE THERE. When that happens more people will want to live there. If the PTB would take their heads out of the sand, they just might see that. They do nothing, in my cynical opinion, to make things better. Bring on the Food Trucks and as many events as possible to bring people downtown. And stop tearing down what's left of the building fabric. I'm not one of those who cries about our "tax dollars," crap. The city will find a way to waste money, but razing the old Southern Bell building is another example of the idiotic thinking that has permeated Jacksonville for most of my lifetime. Why would you destroy a building in great shape? How long does it take to tear a building down? Our city is filled with TERRIBLE ideas. And a terrible habit of creating empty lots for possibilities that never materialize. The older I get the more I realize that Jacksonville will never catch up to the rest of Florida. There will always be a recession, a natural disaster, a big idea from a hotshot that will never invest in DT just throw around fancy ideas. As long as Jacksonville is a socially and politically conservative city this is the best we can expect.

[vicupstate]

^^^Feel blessed to have synchronized lights that move traffic at a light 35 mph.  I think Jacksonville has engineered its lights so well, and that should actually make pedestrian crossings easier with such an organized automobile system.  It should be easy to now tie ped crossings into the system and add bike lanes.  I live in a city with no grid, no timed lights, no synchronized lights, no organization for anybody, including the hundreds of thousands of cars that pack into a few square miles each day and a growing pedestrian environment, and it's pretty much a mess.  It's so bad that ped crossing signals don't even say walk or countdown on one-way streets that are stopped.  You, as a ped, have to press the button to get that signal.  And amazingly one of the world's top civil engineering programs is in the backyard (I don't think any grads are employed by the city).

Jacksonville has such an easy setup, it's one of the best I have ever seen.  Beyond the streets, the built environment or lack thereof depending is where the challenge is.

Not following the logic of how designing a system to serve autos to the detriment of pedestrians, is helpful .

The traffic goes faster than 35 in several areas many periods of the day.   The ability to speed thru Main and other streets because the lights are long and you hit every light green, is very condusive to speeding. This is very intimidating to pedestrians.

No pedestrian trying to cross Main St. is going to be too comfortable doing so, which effectively puts something of a wall up between the east and west sides of that street. 

That is multiplied 10 times over  when you consider the State-Union highway (and that is essentially what it is).  There is a huge disconnect between DT and Springfield because of that.   

DT Jax needs more streets like Laura, and fewer like Main, State/Union and Broad.  Just about every street needs to be 2 way as well. 

[If_I_Loved_you]

^^^Feel blessed to have synchronized lights that move traffic at a light 35 mph.  I think Jacksonville has engineered its lights so well, and that should actually make pedestrian crossings easier with such an organized automobile system.  It should be easy to now tie ped crossings into the system and add bike lanes.  I live in a city with no grid, no timed lights, no synchronized lights, no organization for anybody, including the hundreds of thousands of cars that pack into a few square miles each day and a growing pedestrian environment, and it's pretty much a mess.  It's so bad that ped crossing signals don't even say walk or countdown on one-way streets that are stopped.  You, as a ped, have to press the button to get that signal.  And amazingly one of the world's top civil engineering programs is in the backyard (I don't think any grads are employed by the city).

Jacksonville has such an easy setup, it's one of the best I have ever seen.  Beyond the streets, the built environment or lack thereof depending is where the challenge is.

Atlanta metropolitan area has 5,376,130 inhabitants. Jacksonville Florida has 1,328,144
Metro Area a cake walk when it comes to driving don't you think?

[simms3]

^^^Feel blessed to have synchronized lights that move traffic at a light 35 mph.  I think Jacksonville has engineered its lights so well, and that should actually make pedestrian crossings easier with such an organized automobile system.  It should be easy to now tie ped crossings into the system and add bike lanes.  I live in a city with no grid, no timed lights, no synchronized lights, no organization for anybody, including the hundreds of thousands of cars that pack into a few square miles each day and a growing pedestrian environment, and it's pretty much a mess.  It's so bad that ped crossing signals don't even say walk or countdown on one-way streets that are stopped.  You, as a ped, have to press the button to get that signal.  And amazingly one of the world's top civil engineering programs is in the backyard (I don't think any grads are employed by the city).

Jacksonville has such an easy setup, it's one of the best I have ever seen.  Beyond the streets, the built environment or lack thereof depending is where the challenge is.

Not following the logic of how designing a system to serve autos to the detriment of pedestrians, is helpful .

The traffic goes faster than 35 in several areas many periods of the day.   The ability to speed thru Main and other streets because the lights are long and you hit every light green, is very condusive to speeding. This is very intimidating to pedestrians.

No pedestrian trying to cross Main St. is going to be too comfortable doing so, which effectively puts something of a wall up between the east and west sides of that street. 

That is multiplied 10 times over  when you consider the State-Union highway (and that is essentially what it is).  There is a huge disconnect between DT and Springfield because of that.   

DT Jax needs more streets like Laura, and fewer like Main, State/Union and Broad.  Just about every street needs to be 2 way as well. 

Your points are well taken, but I think properly managed one ways and an organized traffic system actually can be beneficial to pedestrians and bikers.  In my opinion Jacksonville's traffic system is highly organized and easy.  With that being said, I believe to your point major one ways like Main, State, Union, Bay and Adams can be modified to then include a better pedestrian component, as well as a dedicated bike component.  It would be easier to add those to the mix with the system Jacksonville has in place (and the lack of overall traffic and activity to impede construction).

Of course as has been analyzed by MetroJacksonville, certain one-ways should probably be converted to two ways, but given the grid/traffic system, the synchronization and organization of automobile traffic would not necessarily go away.

[Alax44]

DeLorean used car dealership would fit in well here.

[Adam W]

Downtown's Latest Park an Afterthought?



Now that the Duval County Courthouse is finally open for business, Metro Jacksonville visits downtown's latest green space and discovers its presence appears to be an afterthought to city leaders promoting downtown revitalization.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-jun-downtowns-latest-green-space-an-afterthought

I think you're being generous to call it a 'park'. It's more like a massive waste of space. It's not good enough to deserve to be called a park.

[vicupstate]

Courthouse Lawn is more accurate than Park.

[carpnter]

^^^Feel blessed to have synchronized lights that move traffic at a light 35 mph.  I think Jacksonville has engineered its lights so well, and that should actually make pedestrian crossings easier with such an organized automobile system.  It should be easy to now tie ped crossings into the system and add bike lanes.  I live in a city with no grid, no timed lights, no synchronized lights, no organization for anybody, including the hundreds of thousands of cars that pack into a few square miles each day and a growing pedestrian environment, and it's pretty much a mess.  It's so bad that ped crossing signals don't even say walk or countdown on one-way streets that are stopped.  You, as a ped, have to press the button to get that signal.  And amazingly one of the world's top civil engineering programs is in the backyard (I don't think any grads are employed by the city).

Jacksonville has such an easy setup, it's one of the best I have ever seen.  Beyond the streets, the built environment or lack thereof depending is where the challenge is.

Not following the logic of how designing a system to serve autos to the detriment of pedestrians, is helpful .

The traffic goes faster than 35 in several areas many periods of the day.   The ability to speed thru Main and other streets because the lights are long and you hit every light green, is very condusive to speeding. This is very intimidating to pedestrians.

No pedestrian trying to cross Main St. is going to be too comfortable doing so, which effectively puts something of a wall up between the east and west sides of that street. 

That is multiplied 10 times over  when you consider the State-Union highway (and that is essentially what it is).  There is a huge disconnect between DT and Springfield because of that.   

DT Jax needs more streets like Laura, and fewer like Main, State/Union and Broad.  Just about every street needs to be 2 way as well.

The reason people speed down those streets is because the lights are not synchronized at 35mph, frequently the lights will start to change before someone traveling 35mph can get from one end of the street to another even when there is no traffic, so people have a tendency to speed up to get ahead of the changing lights. 

[Adam W]

Courthouse Lawn is more accurate than Park.

True.

It boggles the mind that they didn't make all that land into an actual park (with benches, walkways, trees, etc). I bet it's to make sure homeless people don't set up shop or whatever. But that land could be put to good use.

[thelakelander]

It still can be made into a park with amenities incrementally.  Lakeland's Lake Mirror Park is a great example of how to make a plain "no-frills" space grand, with incremental improvements.

Lake Mirror Park master plan


1994


2010


http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-apr-lakelands-green-treasure-lake-mirror-park