JTA Public Meeting on Downtown Bus Rapid Transit Today

[dougskiles]

It is the frequency and stop location that will make or break this system.  I don't think it matters that much how fancy the stops are, or how isolated the travel lane is.  If the stops are placed to serve areas of higher density (residential or commercial/office), they aren't too close so as to slow the system down and it runs at a frequency faster than 15 minutes, people will ride it.

What we likely won't get is the development boost that comes from having a fixed system such as commuter rail.  Developers aren't going to invest in something that can be easily changed or closed.

I'm not going to spend much time opposing the BRT, but I do think it is an opportunity missed.  With a stronger vision and leadership, I feel that we could have had a better system.  It appears that they chose the path of least resistance, which in the end will bring less reward.

[thelakelander]

^I'd say we were pretty successful in our BRT.  This is the kind of stuff JTA was looking at five years ago:











Starting off as a band of misfits, we successfully illustrated that the previous BRT proposal would cost taxpayers +$1 billion, that the Adams Street bus mall would be a negative on downtown, and that other modes like commuter rail and streetcar should be incorporated into Jacksonville's overall transportation plan, along with modified BRT routes.

The only thing I really wish would change with this BRT proposal is the inclusion of bicycle lanes on Jefferson and Broad Streets.  JTA is going to rebuild both of these streets (a huge plus, imo).  However, rebuilding should mean finding a way to include a 4' bicycle lane on each one.  This would benefit BRT and overall bicycle connectivity through the urban core.  Without including them, we're basically severing the best multimodal route connecting the Southbank with downtown and neighborhoods north of it.

[dougskiles]

I agree - you guys did a great job in getting the original proposal scaled back to a manageable level!

Hopefully, it won't be too long before we can get the commuter rail system up and running.

[Ocklawaha]

We cut the head off but the snake is still moving!

[thelakelander]

Is your definition of the snake BRT in general?

[Ocklawaha]

Is your definition of the snake BRT in general?

No, but it certainly would be when the BRT is planned to parallel the route's of our future commuter rail.

BRT, has higher life-cycle costs then streetcar and most light-rail. Vehicles last less then half as long before they must be replaced. Road's under heavy loads will see an approx. resurfacing cycle of about 10 years where railroad track will last 5x longer.

BRT, however does have some built in usable properties, even in it's heaviest incarnation. Imagine a highly congested downtown laid out like our ours with 8 rail lines converging on the city center. If those were all light-rail or streetcar, a network would have to be constructed downtown to handle such a large amount of traffic. If a city went with 8 dedicated busways from the suburbs to the edge of downtown, nothing has to be constructed in the core because the streets are already there. The BRT line simply rolls down the regular downtown streets then onto the dedicated busway as it leaves downtown.

So BRT can offer some answers here, immediately roads like Beach, Atlantic, JTB, Lem Turner, Post - Normandy, San Jose  and Blanding come to mind immediately. A simple BRT with some of the features of a more expensive system, might actually give some people an alternative to the daily traffic wars. Likewise where rail right-of-way already exists, it is foolish to blow money on duplication, duplication of rail, duplication of Skyway and THIS is where JTA consistently fails with it's BRT schemes. We shouldn't embrace one mode without the complimentary support of the other.

[Ocklawaha]

For what it's worth, this is why I said I'd spend MORE then JTA has planned to make the BRT effective. Let their planners go to work finding a way to get those buses off the Acosta and OVER the railroad to Prudential Drive Westbound, hence south on Palm, and east on Gary and back over the railroad to King Street. Once this rather fancy system of two busway over or underpasses were constructed and once the Overland Bridge got the busway's inserted on either side, you'd have a lasting solution for some 10,000+ workers on the south bank. A alternatives analysis would have to be conducted to see if the Skyway could make the same basic fishhook more economically, in which case you run the BRT NON-STOP under the Skyway to King Street, then assume the BRT route from there. 

[Ocklawaha]

My beef with the BRT snake as it is currently slithering around lays about 75% with the south side line, which is highly duplicating and will quickly become redundant. One would be pretty safe in saying the entire route is in the wrong place from the Acosta southward. The 25% that I disagree with the north route is in the stupidity of missing Pearl. Again another 'OCKLAEXPENSE' that they don't currently have in the plan would call for a short, parallel busway/rail corridor from Main to Moncrief along the old 'S' and 'NS' right-of-ways. The short busway could be used to shift the buses from Shand's along Boulevard to Pearl Street. Pearl is one of the original arterial streetcar lines and has infrastructure that would contribute to ridership in a much larger way then Boulevard does north of the hospital.