Tying it all together

[WmNussbaum]

This topic deserves a board all its own. In reading all the posts and the agreements and disagreements we have with one another on things such as revitalizing downtown/Hemming Park, employing some form of mass transit, improving the park system, improving public education, saving historic structures, one thing is very clear to me. That is that none of those things have a chance of success UNLESS [drum roll] we increase taxes and raise the wherewithal to DO SOMETHING.

Does anyone think the City squanders the taxes it raises? Well, sure, it's government, so, unfortunately, some waste is to be expected. I doubt, however, that waste is so rampant that if it were greatly reduced there would be enough money to solve any one of the situations all of us would like to see addressed.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - arguing with the fact someone advanced about Jacksonville's per capita income: We are a poor city.

If someone has a suggestion about how all those problem areas can be dealt with without raising taxes, I'd like to hear it, and I suspect City Hall would too.

[thelakelander]

revitalizing downtown/Hemming Park, employing some form of mass transit, improving the park system, improving public education, saving historic structures, one thing is very clear to me. That is that none of those things have a chance of success UNLESS [drum roll] we increase taxes and raise the wherewithal to DO SOMETHING.

I don't believe we need to raise taxes to improve the things above.  I believe a higher priority should be on modifying regulations that prohibit some market dynamics from taking place naturally, better utilizing what we already take in and changing our fiscal unsustainable growth and development pattern.

Those would be my three suggestions for short term improvement.  Unfortunately, it's not the most popular argument for someone in leadership to accept such a message.

[Tacachale]

I don't think just raising taxes is the ultimate solution for all those issues. There are other funding mechanisms available that a proactive government can tap. In the mobility plan we found a way to fund the projects without taxing everyone - by establishing a fee paid by new developments that impact the city.

And yes, there has been significant waste of tax money over the last several years that we still haven't dealt with. Before we talk about raising taxes let's get stable again, and examine our revenues and expenditures at that point.

Ultimately though, Wm's right - people will have to understand that the quality of life and services we want for our city is going to require money. You can't have something for nothing.

[Lunican]

We waste money building roads and bridges in every direction and then we waste money providing services over hundreds of square miles. So yes, we squander our tax money. On a much larger scale than most people realize.

[mtraininjax]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - arguing with the fact someone advanced about Jacksonville's per capita income: We are a poor city.

If someone has a suggestion about how all those problem areas can be dealt with without raising taxes, I'd like to hear it, and I suspect City Hall would too.

We don't waste money on bridges and roads, that is absurd. I loved Paul Anderson's, of Jaxport, quote of what if we shut down all the bridges in the city and only allowed the citizens to use them for 4 hours. What would that affect be on our economic systems?

We are a poor city, I hate raising taxes, but I think we will have to do so, for everyone, not just property owners. Our biggest challenge is our education system, it sucks. Yes, it does. Our city will not grow in wealth and success without a better education system. There is real deadwood in our DCPS, and they need to be thrown out and cleaned house for some new folks. We need success stories from other cities, the Chamber should be taking trips to the BEST school systems in the country, not the trips to China. We need to fix the education system, to become a place where companies want to relocate.

If Obama gets re-elected, capital gains will go from 15 to probably 20 or 25% and the Bush tax cuts will go away and we will be raising federal taxes, so why not raise local taxes at the same time? Far easier to get this passed with the Feds doing it. I agree, we are a poor city, but we can fix this with education.

I believe a higher priority should be on modifying regulations that prohibit some market dynamics from taking place naturally, better utilizing what we already take in and changing our fiscal unsustainable growth and development pattern.

All so the teachers and students have a more expeditious way to travel from point A to point B, I suppose. Fix the school systems, you fix the money issues and you can then plan your way into the 22nd century.

[Tacachale]

^Yes, education is one of the things that will not be fixed without devoting more resources to it. I believe we'll all be more comfortable with that when we're not bleeding money into some of the things we're spending on.

[Lunican]

We don't waste money on bridges and roads, that is absurd. I loved Paul Anderson's, of Jaxport, quote of what if we shut down all the bridges in the city and only allowed the citizens to use them for 4 hours. What would that affect be on our economic systems?

We are a poor city, I hate raising taxes, but I think we will have to do so, for everyone, not just property owners. Our biggest challenge is our education system, it sucks.

Mtrain, sales taxes were raised to pay for overpasses on the Southside as part of the Better Jacksonville Plan. Maybe that money should have gone towards schools?

[thelakelander]

We don't waste money on bridges and roads, that is absurd. I loved Paul Anderson's, of Jaxport, quote of what if we shut down all the bridges in the city and only allowed the citizens to use them for 4 hours. What would that affect be on our economic systems?

That's a loaded question.  What if we never built a particular road and didn't allow the sprawl that relies on it but doesn't cover the full cost of its burden on the taxpayer?  Quite simply, we'd have a different development pattern and trip characteristics.  Don't build the Outer Beltway and you won't have Outer Beltway dependent sprawl along that particular corridor.  So yes, we do waste money on roads when we built them for the sake of exposing virgin land for sprawl development (unsustainable ponzi scheme oriented growth).

[mtraininjax]

Mtrain, sales taxes were raised to pay for overpasses on the Southside as part of the Better Jacksonville Plan. Maybe that money should have gone towards schools?

Maybe it should have, we added 11 new libraries but did not fund the labor or materials inside, oops! What is the economic value of having those overpasses? Would it have been better to have longer traffic light patterns and add more congestion? Everything should be on the table, I agree, but some overpasses were not built as we woke up from drinking the Kool-Aid, so some people benefited from the overpasses, and others have nice commutes.

An overpass contributes to the carbon footprint, moves traffic quicker, and over time will cost more and more in repairs, but that same mountain of money, if it helps a grade of 30 students over  their schooling, will then generate more in local revenue in taxes? It is an interesting study, would be for sure. We have finite resources, where should we spend them?

[Debbie Thompson]

We used to live in East Arlington, north of Atlantic, off Kernan Blvd.  That was several years ago, but driving home from downtown on Atlantic, the slow down occurred just past Regency, near Debutante, just before 9A and St. Johns Bluff.  By the time I got out to Kernan, I was driving speed limit.  So why was the Kernan overpass on Atlantic Boulevard needed?  By the way, ditto with Beach Boulevard and the Kernan/Beach overpass when we lived at the Beach.

Of course, that was all between 2000 and 2005, so maybe I'm not up to speed on drive times should they not have been built.  But, Lake, there's where we could have gotten the streetcar money!  LOL

[dougskiles]

Great thread topic.  This community is starving for courageous leadership on this issue.  The simplest and easiest thing a politician can do when campaigning is to proclaim that they won't raise taxes.  And while they are in office (as long as the possibity of reelection exists) they will continue to beat the no taxes drum - regardless of the devastating impact it will have.

I take a different view (and apparently unpopular in our city).  I believe that to create wealth, we must invest.  It is up to us as citizens to be involved in government to ensure that these resources are being used wisely.