Density does not imply high-rises

[JFman00]

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/05/limits-density/2005/

Some interesting themes for Jacksonville, namely that building tall buildings is no guarantee of dense/vibrant neighborhoods. The density we should be aiming for is a density of uses, not of square footage.

[jcjohnpaint]

Great find.  Makes me think of Miami.  For a city with so many condo tower and all you see are parking garages at street level. 

[urbaknight]

I have to disagree on this one, high-rises are the most important to a major city. They add charactor, they make you think about the complexity, the expense, the engineering skills it took to pull it off. They add inspiration, (especially when you're looking at it from 10 miles away on the freeway) I agree about Miami though, which is why we should look to NYC, Philly, Boston, and to an extent, Baltimore. We can do it, especially in DT, if nowhere else, DT needs to be as built as we can get it.

I say, let's go as far as to attempt to build the tallest building in the world! Right here in DT JAX!

[JeffreyS]

The density Jax needs for the most part is to follow Riverside's experience in the core neighborhoods. Obviously giant new projects downtown should be more vertical and not sprawl out like our abomination of a new courthouse.

[mtraininjax]

Obviously giant new projects downtown should be more vertical and not sprawl out like our abomination of a new courthouse.

Amen brother, if the Feds could build a courthouse on one square block, why did the City think they needed multiple?

[JeffreyS]

You said it twin courthouses there would have looked great.

[simms3]

Good points.  DC is really the token model here, but not ironically it is the most expensive city behind Manhattan.

I think Houston keeps building up and up and up (both 4-5 stories and 50 stories), and yet nothing being built in Houston connects and the overall vibrancy of the city is as dead as they come.  Dallas the same to a much lesser extent (its tallest area - downtown - is dead, but Uptown and along Mockingbird are coming together, and yet these areas are a mixture of mid-rise and low-rise).

The point about tech firms is also true.  I see that happening where I am - these firms are massing in the warehousy districts and in low-rises around the universities.

A development my firm is working on features 400,000 SF floorplates (nearly 10 acres) and only ~10 floors.  It will have tech firms and general loft office space, multifamily, condos, and retail/market space with gardens and a track and event space on the roof.  Once all is said and done, including parking the building will more efficiently maximize floorspace than any skyscraper could.

This weekend I'll try to get around to showcasing new rental product going up en masse in Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville and Birmingham to depict the current trend for infill (a trend that has not reached Jacksonville except in 1-2 developments total).  None of it is high-rise/skyscraper.

[Ocklawaha]

Good points.  DC is really the token model here, but not ironically it is the most expensive city behind Manhattan.

I think Houston keeps building up and up and up (both 4-5 stories and 50 stories), and yet nothing being built in Houston connects and the overall vibrancy of the city is as dead as they come.  Dallas the same to a much lesser extent (its tallest area - downtown - is dead, but Uptown and along Mockingbird are coming together, and yet these areas are a mixture of mid-rise and low-rise).

But of course darling, Mockingbird and Uptown are on Light-Rail and Streetcar, the amazing clusters that have sprung up along the Plano Light-Rail line are perfect vibrant models. Keeping in mind that Dallas like Jacksonville is as hot as the hubs of hell in the summer, albeit Jacksonville seems to have forgotten the function and art of 'AWNING'.

[Ocklawaha]

Obviously giant new projects downtown should be more vertical and not sprawl out like our abomination of a new courthouse.

Amen brother, if the Feds could build a courthouse on one square block, why did the City think they needed multiple?

Well the Feds went for the ultra-modern urbanist elite look, Jacksonville went for the Mayberry RFD appearance.

[Ocklawaha]

I have to disagree on this one, high-rises are the most important to a major city. They add charactor, they make you think about the complexity, the expense, the engineering skills it took to pull it off. They add inspiration, (especially when you're looking at it from 10 miles away on the freeway) I agree about Miami though, which is why we should look to NYC, Philly, Boston, and to an extent, Baltimore. We can do it, especially in DT, if nowhere else, DT needs to be as built as we can get it.

I say, let's go as far as to attempt to build the tallest building in the world! Right here in DT JAX!

Hard to copy a downtown in a Continental Climate in a Temperate Sub-Tropical Climate. As I have already said, the fine art of covering our sidewalks seems lost on the current incarnation of downtown Jacksonville.

[JFman00]

I have to disagree on this one, high-rises are the most important to a major city. They add charactor, they make you think about the complexity, the expense, the engineering skills it took to pull it off. They add inspiration, (especially when you're looking at it from 10 miles away on the freeway) I agree about Miami though, which is why we should look to NYC, Philly, Boston, and to an extent, Baltimore. We can do it, especially in DT, if nowhere else, DT needs to be as built as we can get it.

I say, let's go as far as to attempt to build the tallest building in the world! Right here in DT JAX!

I don't disagree. The thrust of the article to me, however, was that building high-rise single-purpose structures matters less than concentrating uses. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't almost all the high-rises downtown single purpose? Not even ground-floor retail. The BoA tower especially reminds me of this:

Another Jahn building next to a suburban shopping mall, right off the interstate, surrounded by parking lots. The Berkman and towers on the Southbank would be just as much at home on the Gulf Coast, with their significant street set-backs and parking-centric designs.

Chicago's Trump Tower on the other hand is a condo-hotel with ground floor retail and a 16th floor restaurant. Water Tower Place in Chicago is a major shopping mall, condo-hotel *and* office building. While the Loop (almost entirely office space) is dead after 6 PM, mixed-use, high-rise neighborhoods like River North and Streeterville are always bustling.

[thelakelander]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't almost all the high-rises downtown single purpose? Not even ground-floor retail.

Actually, nearly all of the downtown skyscrapers have retail on the ground floor.  A few, such as Everbank Center (former AT&T) and Wells Fargo Center (former MODIS/Independent Life) have mini malls.  BOA has a bank branch, a coffee shop and at least two retail spaces on the first floor.  One used to be a restaurant but it closed a couple of years ago.  The problem with downtown is you can barely see any of the first floor retail from the street.

[JFman00]

I had no idea. I'd guess they're designed mostly to cater to people working in the tower during the day?

[thelakelander]

They, like most downtown buildings constructed after 1950 are horribly designed at street level.  One of the quickest ways to improve downtown is to expose businesses in the towers to the street.

[Tacachale]

^As I say at every opportunity, doing just that has done wonders for downtown Orlando.