Bill Nelson Right on Healthcare 4 All: 91,000 Americans won't Die Unnecessarily!

[fsquid]

Because the U.S. is the defender of the Free World, European nations don't have to allocate nearly as much toward guns and can allocate much more toward butter.

If the U.S. left Europe to their own, they would have to reallocate their budgets to cover their own defense.

Until they have to make the same decisions we do, there is no comparison.

[fsquid]

I'm not interested at all to be honest Faye.  I pretty much agree with the article posted. While I would prefer the French model, I would be perfectly happy for us to adopt the German version of the Bismarck universal-insurance approach to health care. What I don't want is UK, or even worse Canada, and that's the direction that the democrats seem to want to take us.

The mandate is probably the BEST part of Obamacare. It's a whole lot better than most of what else is in those 2000-plus pages, but if it's the only way to get rid of the bad, then the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Very well said.......and I wish conservatives wouldn't treat universal healthcare as one and the same........as if it would always be UK or Spain style.

You might be surprised about the Canadian system:

Most doctors are self-employed private entities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(Canada)

Canada is single-payer and in my opinion it is the worst since it is basically illegal to have private insurance there.  I know that they might be changing that in the future because single payer is starting to fail to meet the needs of its citizens.

I like the French system the best because you have a "free" side that covers every body. You move over to the "pay" system when you don't want to put up with the wait on the "free" side. That makes the "pay" system relatively cheap, at least by our standards, since you don't use it often.

Actually many people have the same common misunderstanding of the Canadian system. What you describe of the French system is ALSO true in Canada:

Some 75% of Canadians have some form of supplementary private health insurance; many of them receive it through their employers.[37] There are also large private entities that can buy priority access to medical services in Canada, such as WCB in BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#Private_sector

BTW this is a prime example of how easy and successful Republican deception and brainwashing is about the so-called perils of single payer healthcare systems.

The consumers of single-payer healthcare systems wouldn't want to trade their system for ours.

Three things:

1. As noted in the article, this primarily (almost entirely) consists of things not covered or only partially covered by the government plan. As a general rule, if the government covers it, then ONLY the government can cover it. So you if you need surgery, it's covered by the government but they put you in a queue and tell you to wait three years, it is illegal for you to contract with a private doctor or private insurance to obtain the surgery sooner. Obviously, you can leave the country and have it done outside the jurisdiction where those laws apply, which a number of Canadians choose to do when they come to the US for surgery.

2. The Canadian plan is done on a provincial level, and plans vary slightly from province to province. Some provinces have opened up some possibility of private care in areas where the government system was obviously failing. I think BC and Quebec have done more of this than the other provinces, but that information is dated and could be incorrect.

3. The government as a whole is pulling back because there are huge areas where the single-payer plan has been judged to be a failure, and those are being returned wholesale to the private sector. You have situations analogous to Lasik here, where the government has withdrawn coverage and turned it over to the private sector.

Bottom line--if Medicare (the single-payer system) covers it, you can't have it done privately, but Medicare is withdrawing from more and more places, basically admitting failure in those areas, so more private care is coming into play. If you get really, really sick in Canada, you hope it is something that Medicare does NOT cover.

[jerry cornwell]

that should be met in a civilized society.

At what Cost Faye? Should we sacrifice generations to come of their ability to earn a living wage, all so we can provide coverage to 10 million Americans who cant or wont get coverage now? Why is it that the have-nots always want an LBJ or FDR in the White House to run to and complain that life is not fair?

Guess what, Life is Not Fair, and as a country, nothing in our Constitution declares that FREE medical coverage is available to all who consume oxygen in the USA.

Mtrain, do you think we have a problem with healthcare in the U.S. ?
I think that if the founding fathers could have, they would have seen to it that all Americans have free healthcare!
The founding fathers saw life fair enough that all should have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[bill]

that should be met in a civilized society.

At what Cost Faye? Should we sacrifice generations to come of their ability to earn a living wage, all so we can provide coverage to 10 million Americans who cant or wont get coverage now? Why is it that the have-nots always want an LBJ or FDR in the White House to run to and complain that life is not fair?

Guess what, Life is Not Fair, and as a country, nothing in our Constitution declares that FREE medical coverage is available to all who consume oxygen in the USA.

Mtrain, do you think we have a problem with healthcare in the U.S. ?
I think that if the founding fathers could have, they would have seen to it that all Americans have free healthcare!
The founding fathers saw life fair enough that all should have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

So who's rights are you going to take away? and how much?

[FayeforCure]

Because the U.S. is the defender of the Free World, European nations don't have to allocate nearly as much toward guns and can allocate much more toward butter.

defender of the Free World? What does that mean? Meddling in the sovereign affairs of oil rich states? Feeding the highly profitable military industrial complex?

On Jan. 17, 1961, President Dwight Eisenhower gave the nation a dire warning about what he described as a threat to democratic government. He called it the military-industrial complex, a formidable union of defense contractors and the armed forces.

Eisenhower, a retired five-star Army general, the man who led the allies on D-Day, made the remarks in his farewell speech from the White House.

As NPR's Tom Bowman tells Morning Edition co-host Renee Montagne, Eisenhower used the speech to warn about "the immense military establishment" that had joined with "a large arms industry."

Here's an excerpt:


"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist."

Since then, the phrase has become a rallying cry for opponents of military expansion.
Eisenhower gave the address after completing two terms in office; it was just days before the new president, John F. Kennedy, would be sworn in.

Eisenhower was worried about the costs of an arms race with the Soviet Union, and the resources it would take from other areas â€" such as building hospitals and schools.

Bowman says that in the speech, Eisenhower also spoke as someone who had seen the horror and lingering sadness of war, saying that "we must learn how to compose differences not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose."

Another concern, Bowman says, was the possibility that as the military and the arms industry gained power, they would be a threat to democracy, with civilians losing control of the military-industrial complex.

In his remarks, Eisenhower also explained how the situation had developed:


"Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of ploughshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions."


In an effort to control the expansion of the military-industrial complex, Eisenhower consistently sought to cut the Pentagon's budget.

The former general wanted a budget the country could afford, Bowman says. He upset all the military services with his budget cuts, especially the Air Force.

Citing another quote from Eisenhower â€" this one from another speech on military spending â€" Bowman says, "The jet plane that roars overhead costs three quarters of a million dollars. That’s more than a man will make in his lifetime. What world can afford this kind of thing for long?"

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/17/132942244/ikes-warning-of-military-expansion-50-years-later

http://www.notable-quotes.com/e/eisenhower_dwight_d.html

[FayeforCure]

that should be met in a civilized society.

At what Cost Faye? Should we sacrifice generations to come of their ability to earn a living wage, all so we can provide coverage to 10 million Americans who cant or wont get coverage now? Why is it that the have-nots always want an LBJ or FDR in the White House to run to and complain that life is not fair?

Guess what, Life is Not Fair, and as a country, nothing in our Constitution declares that FREE medical coverage is available to all who consume oxygen in the USA.

Mtrain, do you think we have a problem with healthcare in the U.S. ?
I think that if the founding fathers could have, they would have seen to it that all Americans have free healthcare!
The founding fathers saw life fair enough that all should have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

So who's rights are you going to take away? and how much?

We should all have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

But of course Republicans will cry like babies that their guns are being taken away, like they are paranoid about other imaginary things that are being taken away. They are basically in a constant state of paranoia and cannot envision progress, of which the are more afraid than regression.

Oh and Europe doing anything better than us........just IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

[BridgeTroll]

Welcome back Faye!  Where were you this time?  south america?  Europe?  You really should get to asia for a change... 

[fsquid]

Europe is starting to do things better, no doubt.  Took them 30 years of screwing up to finally figure things out.

[FayeforCure]

Europe is starting to do things better, no doubt.  Took them 30 years of screwing up to finally figure things out.

Europe consists of many different countries. Those in western Europe have consistently prospered while taking care of their own, which is the ultimate goal of a civilized society.

If you are talking about Spain, Greece and Italy screwing up.........well, those were just vacation destinations for the western European middle class.

[FayeforCure]

Welcome back Faye!  Where were you this time?  south america?  Europe?  You really should get to asia for a change... 

Asia is on my list of must-visit

BTW, I made an incredible discovery the other day..........Bob Barr lived in the same countries as I did: Malaysia and Iran. He even graduated highschool from the same school I attended in Iran. Imagine that!

BT, what happened to your traveling days?

[BridgeTroll]

Welcome back Faye!  Where were you this time?  south america?  Europe?  You really should get to asia for a change... 

Asia is on my list of must-visit

BTW, I made an incredible discovery the other day..........Bob Barr lived in the same countries as I did: Malaysia and Iran. He even graduated highschool from the same school I attended in Iran. Imagine that!

BT, what happened to your traveling days?

I'm more domestic these days... gonna spend a week in Charleston soon!

[fsquid]

Europe is starting to do things better, no doubt.  Took them 30 years of screwing up to finally figure things out.

Europe consists of many different countries. Those in western Europe have consistently prospered while taking care of their own, which is the ultimate goal of a civilized society.

If you are talking about Spain, Greece and Italy screwing up.........well, those were just vacation destinations for the western European middle class.

No, those countries are screwing up now and can't print their own money.  Basically, in the 70s - late 90s, Europe was not business friendly and they wealthy were leaving in droves to escape 75% personal tax rates.

[FayeforCure]

Europe is starting to do things better, no doubt.  Took them 30 years of screwing up to finally figure things out.

Europe consists of many different countries. Those in western Europe have consistently prospered while taking care of their own, which is the ultimate goal of a civilized society.

If you are talking about Spain, Greece and Italy screwing up.........well, those were just vacation destinations for the western European middle class.

No, those countries are screwing up now and can't print their own money.  Basically, in the 70s - late 90s, Europe was not business friendly and they wealthy were leaving in droves to escape 75% personal tax rates.

What countries are you talking about? Europe has always been far more business friendly to small businesses than the US has:

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/dec2010/sb20101210_839038.htm

I know, I know........not exactly what you've been told by the US Propagandists aka Republican Party.

[FayeforCure]

Welcome back Faye!  Where were you this time?  south america?  Europe?  You really should get to asia for a change... 

Asia is on my list of must-visit

BTW, I made an incredible discovery the other day..........Bob Barr lived in the same countries as I did: Malaysia and Iran. He even graduated highschool from the same school I attended in Iran. Imagine that!

BT, what happened to your traveling days?

I'm more domestic these days... gonna spend a week in Charleston soon!

Sounds like fun.......I haven't been there yet, but have a daughter in Fayettville NC. (husband at Fort Bragg), so I might chek it out some day, as it is reasonably close.

[fsquid]

Europe is starting to do things better, no doubt.  Took them 30 years of screwing up to finally figure things out.

Europe consists of many different countries. Those in western Europe have consistently prospered while taking care of their own, which is the ultimate goal of a civilized society.

If you are talking about Spain, Greece and Italy screwing up.........well, those were just vacation destinations for the western European middle class.

No, those countries are screwing up now and can't print their own money.  Basically, in the 70s - late 90s, Europe was not business friendly and they wealthy were leaving in droves to escape 75% personal tax rates.

What countries are you talking about? Europe has always been far more business friendly to small businesses than the US has:

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/dec2010/sb20101210_839038.htm

I know, I know........not exactly what you've been told by the US Propagandists aka Republican Party.

always?  Then you link something from 2010?  Article seems to confirm what I said, they lowered business taxes in many Euro countries betoween 1998 and 2008.